Firearm bills question

[GunGrey]

Anybody have any information on H2247, its the one about the mircostamping of serial numbers on a firearms breech face. One of my friend sent me a link over facebook from the NRA about the list of hearings on guns. heres the link http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=5330

Also didn't california shoot this same idea down a little while ago. theres a bunch of other ones and the all seem to be just fluff with maybe one or two people on the petition. Im hopping that hunting on sundays is allowed and also H2259 get passed. this would be a big step forward.

 

[Larry Legend]

I'm pretty sure there is enough evidence to convince level headed people that microstamping, in it's current form, is quite ineffective. I would expect this to get shot down. It will (has to) raise the cost of a firearm. It is also functionally ineffective when considering a revolver. Since a revolver does not eject a casing, there is no microstamped casing to tell you who the gun was stolen from.

Novel idea. But ineffective in practice.

I am also pretty sure that 2259 would get revised and amended slightly if it were to be passed. In my mind, there is simply too much new pro-gun stances in the bill for it to be passed outright.

 

[GunGrey]

First time I read it, I also thought that wouldn't work in an revolver unless the criminal decided to drop his cases then leave. But also what happens when the serial number is worn down? but anyways I figured 2259 is way to progun for MA, but I do like the idea of one license and that it comes from the state and no PCs have control over it. Also I want hunting on sundays passed, felt i just need to say it again for the record.

 

[LoginName]

An Act to improve the ballistic database through microstamping ammunition.



Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:

Chapter 269 of the General Laws, as appearing in the 2004 Official Edition, is hereby amended by deleting Section 11E and inserting the following new section:-

Chapter 269: Section 11E. Serial identification numbers on firearms.

Section 11E.

(A) All firearms, rifles and shotguns of new manufacture, manufactured or delivered to any licensed dealer within the commonwealth shall bear serial numbers permanently inscribed on a visible metal area of said firearm, rifle or shotgun, and the manufacturer of said firearm, rifle or shotgun shall keep records of said serial numbers and the dealer, distributor or person to whom the firearm, rifle or shotgun was sold or delivered.

No licensed dealer shall order for delivery, cause to be delivered, offer for sale or sell within the commonwealth any newly manufactured firearm, rifle or shotgun received directly from a manufacturer, wholesaler or distributor not so inscribed with a serial number nor shall any licensed manufacturer or distributor of firearms, rifles or shotguns deliver or cause to be delivered within the commonwealth any firearm, rifle or shotgun not complying with this section.

No licensed manufacturer within the commonwealth shall produce for sale within the United States, its territories or possessions any firearm, rifle or shotgun not complying with paragraph one of this section. Whoever violates this section shall be punished by a fine of five hundred dollars. Each such violation shall constitute a separate offense.

(B) All semiautomatic firearms as defined in Chapter 140 Section 21 manufactured or delivered to any licensed dealer within the commonwealth shall be capable of microstamping ammunition.

(C) For purposes of subparagraph (B), a firearm is capable of microstamping ammunition if –

(i) a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the of the firearm is etched into the breech face and firing pin of the firearm; and

(ii) when ammunition is fired from the firearm, the characters are copied from the breech face and firing pin onto the cartridge case of the ammunition.

(D) Subparagraph (B) shall apply only to semiautomatic firearms which –

(i) are manufactured, or imported into the Commonwealth on or after the effective date of this subsection; and

(ii) have not been transferred to a person not licensed under Chapter 140 of the general laws.

(D) Whoever violates paragraph (B) shall be fined an amount equal to –

(i) in the case of a first such violation by the violator, $1,000 multiplied by the number of firearms involved in the violation;

(ii) in the case of a second violation by the violator, $2,000 multiplied by the number of firearms involved in the violation;

(iii) in the case of a third such violation by the violator, $3,000 multiplied by the number of firearms involved in the violation.

(E) The effective date of this act shall be January 1, 2010.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/house/186/ht02/ht02247.htm

 

[yanici]

Steve, if the serial number wears down you'll be up the creek by owning an illegal weapon. You will be required to bring all your guns, on an annual basis, in for firing pin inspection to test it. If the gun fails you will get a 30 day reject sticker and may bring it back for a free reinspection within that 30 days after it is re-firing pinned. Easy, just like cars.

 

[groundscrapers]

And when you need to replace your firing pin .... lol.

 

[cekim]

cali passed it and it was suppposed to go into effect 1/1/2010, but hasn't and won't anytime soon as it is a Cluster!@#$...

we kindly informed the committee of this today - hopefully, they heed the warning...

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

cali passed it and it was suppposed to go into effect 1/1/2010, but hasn't and won't anytime soon as it is a Cluster!@#$...

we kindly informed the committee of this today - hopefully, they heed the warning...

I am surprised when people talk about microstamping the chain of evidence is hardly ever mentioned. If I go to the range and fire 50 rounds, I may not get all the casings because some may be beyond the red line. Now I leave and another guy there sweeps up the remaining brass (not a big deal because people reload). Now this individual reloads my brass, but decides to use that particular bullet to shoot his ex-wife. They could come back to me, because it is my information stamped on the casing. Now here is a technical question I don't have the answer to. Could that primer be re-used? I've seen ones double struck that fire on the second strike, so could my scenario play out from a technical perspective.

 

[yanici]

I am surprised when people talk about microstamping the chain of evidence is hardly ever mentioned. If I go to the range and fire 50 rounds, I may not get all the casings because some may be beyond the red line. Now I leave and another guy there sweeps up the remaining brass (not a big deal because people reload). Now this individual reloads my brass, but decides to use that particular bullet to shoot his ex-wife. They could come back to me, because it is my information stamped on the casing. Now here is a technical question I don't have the answer to. Could that primer be re-used? I've seen ones double struck that fire on the second strike, so could my scenario play out from a technical perspective.

How about the guy scoops your old brass and sells it to some thug that drops it at the scene of a triple shooting murder. Your name is on the brass. Stupid law.

 

[cekim]

I am surprised when people talk about microstamping the chain of evidence is hardly ever mentioned. If I go to the range and fire 50 rounds, I may not get all the casings because some may be beyond the red line. Now I leave and another guy there sweeps up the remaining brass (not a big deal because people reload). Now this individual reloads my brass, but decides to use that particular bullet to shoot his ex-wife. They could come back to me, because it is my information stamped on the casing. Now here is a technical question I don't have the answer to. Could that primer be re-used? I've seen ones double struck that fire on the second strike, so could my scenario play out from a technical perspective.

No one is going to re use a primer, they are entirely disposable items in the reloading process...

There are much more mundane, yet difficult issues for this process:
- circumvention via firing pin change
- circumvention via filing off microstamping from pin (demonstrated already)
- wear on the pin - also demonstrated to be rapid
- fact that most crime guns are not exactly new off the shelf guns, they've been floating around and are often used in multiple crimes before confiscated.
- patent issues
- cost to implement as well as cost to develop the database - they held their hand out for $2m today and the reception was, shall we say - cold...

 

[swampy]

If your planning on shooting anyone with a 2010 model you should collect a pocketful of microstamped brass from other's guns and drop them at the scene just to confuse the issue.

I am surprised when people talk about microstamping the chain of evidence is hardly ever mentioned. If I go to the range and fire 50 rounds, I may not get all the casings because some may be beyond the red line. Now I leave and another guy there sweeps up the remaining brass (not a big deal because people reload). Now this individual reloads my brass, but decides to use that particular bullet to shoot his ex-wife. They could come back to me, because it is my information stamped on the casing. Now here is a technical question I don't have the answer to. Could that primer be re-used? I've seen ones double struck that fire on the second strike, so could my scenario play out from a technical perspective.

 

[Titan]

Gee, I wonder if a defense attorney could ever establish 'reasonable doubt'!

 

[terraformer]

The committee members today seemed to be pretty aware how bad that law is. This one is easy to understand.

Now, if we could only get them to understand the laws of this state, maybe we can get somewhere.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

The committee members today seemed to be pretty aware how bad that law is. This one is easy to understand.

Now, if we could only get them to understand the laws of this state, maybe we can get somewhere.

I'm actually going to put together a new post asking for letters from individuals who were denied their LTC-A ALP without any cause or disqualifiers. Let's get some stacks like those presented by GOAL today explaining people's experiences. Because they don't seem to believe that CLEOs are denying arbitrarily.

 

[bhmax16]

I'm actually going to put together a new post asking for letters from individuals who were denied their LTC-A ALP without any cause or disqualifiers. Let's get some stacks like those presented by GOAL today explaining people's experiences. Because they don't seem to believe that CLEOs are denying arbitrarily.

PM me if you would like me to write a letter! I was denied ALP and given a T&H restriction for no other reason than being a first time applicant (which does NOT take into account any firearms experience or training you may have had in the past). Which contradicts their primary reasoning which was "you have not had your license long enough to establish that you are competent with firearms and therefore we will not review a request to lift said restrictions until you have possessed your license for a minimum of 3 years."

I am currently fighting with the department to get them to void the license, which they also are not cooperating on thus far. My Massachusetts and Utah certified instructor even wrote a letter to the FRB on my behalf asking them if there was ANY other way for me to have my current license voided so I can apply in my new green town, and sadly they said no, even though he informed them that I'm "one of the most responsible, safe, and detailed law abiding firearm owners he knows in Massachusetts and have taken numerous classes with him." So just let me know, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to help our community

 

[daddysuperfly]

i gave first hand testimony that i was issued a restriction: Hunting and Target, with only having speeding tickets on my record. The chairman responded that my record was cleaner than his. So, i'm hoping they got that message.

PM me if you would like me to write a letter!

What he said... i'll be happy to write a letter as well.

 

[terraformer]

PM me if you would like me to write a letter! I was denied ALP and given a T&H restriction for no other reason than being a first time applicant (which does NOT take into account any firearms experience or training you may have had in the past). Which contradicts their primary reasoning which was "you have not had your license long enough to establish that you are competent with firearms and therefore we will not review a request to lift said restrictions until you have possessed your license for a minimum of 3 years."

I am currently fighting with the department to get them to void the license, which they also are not cooperating on thus far. My Massachusetts and Utah certified instructor even wrote a letter to the FRB on my behalf asking them if there was ANY other way for me to have my current license voided so I can apply in my new green town, and sadly they said no, even though he informed them that I'm "one of the most responsible, safe, and detailed law abiding firearm owners he knows in Massachusetts and have taken numerous classes with him." So just let me know, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to help our community

Your story just confounds me. I wish you could have been there today. The committee would have been interested in your story. It illustrates a lot.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Anyone with letters please go ahead and PM me. Here are my initial thoughts:

- Nobody with any kind of criminal record
- Nobody with any restraining orders or orders of protection
- Nobody with DUIs
- Absolutely no immediate disqualifiers
- Provide detailed accounts of the experience (the process, what the CLEO asked you to provide, etc.)
- Why you were issues T&H or completely denied, if no reason was given then please specify that

Basically, I want to show them that people who are among the most upstanding citizens of MA are being denied their rights without any reason. If we include letters with complicated situations, it will be easy for them to say "see, that's why the chief denied them"