fid card and ar 15's

[skeetshooter]

i know i cannot buy an ar15 with an fid card. but what about a stripper lower then building it myself. where would that fall legally.

 

[ntomsw]

Lower is a firearm which requires a 4473 at an FFL upon picking it up. I don't think you can.

 

[speedy]

So you want to buy a "stripper"
Hmmmmmmm. Strippers.

No dice. The lower is the gun dude.

 

[skeetshooter]

i didnt even notice that. auto correct for the win. and yea what 19 year old male wouldnt want a stripper lol

 

[jasons]

i know i cannot buy an ar15 with an fid card. but what about a stripper lower then building it myself. where would that fall legally.

An AR is considered a "large capacity weapon."

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.

You can't possess a "large capacity weapon" on a FID.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129b

A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to possess: (i) a large capacity firearm or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a Class A license issued to a shooting club as provided under section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a Class A license issued to an individual under section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range; or (ii) a non-large capacity firearm or large capacity rifle or shotgun or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a Class A license issued to a shooting club as provided under section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a Class A or Class B license issued to an individual under section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range. A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to possess any rifle or shotgun that is, or in such manner that is, otherwise prohibited by law. A firearm identification card shall be valid for the purpose of purchasing and possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate. Except as otherwise provided herein, a firearm identification card shall not be valid for the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental or transportation of a rifle or shotgun if such rifle or shotgun is a large capacity weapon as defined in section 121.

So, legally speaking that would fall into not legal land.

 

[Canndo]

Someone call the ATF or NSF. I don't like the OP's line of questioning.

 

[ISOTOX]

Someone call the ATF or NSF. I don't like the OP's line of questioning.

I see the can of worm's and the can is going to get opened I just know it.....

 

[MikeInMA]

i didnt even notice that. auto correct for the win. and yea what 19 year old male wouldnt want a stripper lol

Yes but if you are looking for stripper lowers you might want to start looking in the trunks of cars.

 

[WallHack]

Someone call the ATF or NSF. I don't like the OP's line of questioning.

Is OP brown?

 

[piman]

Is OP brown?

In the first post he used incorrect language and then later he showed that he knew the language. That should be enough to call...

 

[Canndo]

Is OP brown?

Definitely Lebanese

 

[transamkid86]

i didnt even notice that. auto correct for the win. and yea what 19 year old male wouldnt want a stripper lol

Guess thats why your called "skeetshotter" rofl...

You kno the worse part? Living in mass are you even allowed a "large cap" mag? Nope unless it preban...amd dam my id says LARGE CAP! But I can't have a mag having more then 10 rds... but u can get a "large cap? Rifle but is it rly large cap in mass? Haha good ole state we live in!

 

[WallHack]

Guess thats why your called "skeetshotter" rofl...

You kno the worse part? Living in mass are you even allowed a "large cap" mag? Nope unless it preban...amd dam my id says LARGE CAP! But I can't have a mag having more then 10 rds... but u can get a "large cap? Rifle but is it rly large cap in mass? Haha good ole state we live in!

You said large cap mags. Mike Sr. warned me about people like you.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Someone call the ATF or NSF. I don't like the OP's line of questioning.

Not necessary . . .

The Deputy Chief Counsel for EOPS is reading what is posted here and is probably writing the Subpoena to get the real name/address of the OP! [And no, I am NOT kidding!]

OP: Don't answer your door, whatever you do!

 

[Evadd]

No mention of an 80% lower?

 

[jasons]

No mention of an 80% lower?

Still illegal to possess on an FID (in MA anyway) once it's built into a rifle.

 

[TOM1960]

i know i cannot buy an ar15 with an fid card. but what about a stripper lower then building it myself. where would that fall legally.

I am a FID holder as well. I went with the stainless, synthetic stock Mini 14 and never looked back. Fires the same cartridge as the AR, is perfectly FID legal and does not appear on any "assault weapons" lists. Get one of the newer models with the heavy barrel. I did and mine is very accurate. The all-stainless construction make it easy to maintain as well.

 

[MrJingles]

I'm pretty sure a mini 14 is not legal under an FID, but I could be wrong.

 

[WallHack]

I'm pretty sure a mini 14 is not legal under an FID, but I could be wrong.

Pretty sure you're riiiiiight...

 

[jasons]

I am a FID holder as well. I went with the stainless, synthetic stock Mini 14 and never looked back. Fires the same cartridge as the AR, is perfectly FID legal and does not appear on any "assault weapons" lists. Get one of the newer models with the heavy barrel. I did and mine is very accurate. The all-stainless construction make it easy to maintain as well.

I know you desperately want to be right, but you're not.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm pretty sure a mini 14 is not legal under an FID, but I could be wrong.

Back before the Fed Ban, Ruger never shipped them to the civilian market with anything larger than a 10 rd mag. MA does not have this gun listed on the large-cap roster (6/2011). That doesn't seal the question, but is a fair indicator. [S&W M&P 15-22 is on that roster, yet none of the M&P handguns are. So the roster is consistently inconsistent!]

 

[Len-2A Training]

The problem using Jasons definition is . . .

EVERY semi-auto with a removable mag would be defined as "large capacity" as they all can be "readily adaptable" as such. It was poor wording which is why the CMR was written (by Glidden, no doubt) to be LESS RESTRICTIVE!

Thus, open to interpretation as it is here where Jasons argues with me every time this topic comes up (about 1-2x/week)!

 

[saltydude]

I know it's the LAMEST nurtured configuration ever fathomed but...
Didn't Bushmaster make a "California legal" break top internal box magazine AR? FID legal?

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, as ALL ARs and clones thereof are called out as large-capacity.

 

[jasons]

The problem using Jasons definition is . . .

EVERY semi-auto with a removable mag would be defined as "large capacity" as they all can be "readily adaptable" as such. It was poor wording which is why the CMR was written (by Glidden, no doubt) to be LESS RESTRICTIVE!

Thus, open to interpretation as it is here where Jasons argues with me every time this topic comes up (about 1-2x/week)!

It's not MY definition, it's MGL Chapter 140, Section 121's definition. And yes, per the letter of the law that's correct.

Which CMR are you talking about? 501 CMR 7.02?

Back before the Fed Ban, Ruger never shipped them to the civilian market with anything larger than a 10 rd mag. MA does not have this gun listed on the large-cap roster (6/2011). That doesn't seal the question, but is a fair indicator. [S&W M&P 15-22 is on that roster, yet none of the M&P handguns are. So the roster is consistently inconsistent!]

The roster is not all-inclusive:

Weapons not listed on this roster may also be large capacity weapons if they are semi-automatic and are capable of accepting or readily modifiable to accept a large capacity feeding device.

So with that out of the way, is a Mini-14 "semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device?" It's a simple yes / no question.

 

[saltydude]

No, as ALL ARs and clones thereof are called out as large-capacity.

Ahhhh got cha. Makes sense. Just a thought.

 

[Kevlar]

I'm pretty sure a mini 14 is not legal under an FID, but I could be wrong.

Pretty sure you're riiiiiight...

IANAL, but IMO they are now in a legal grey area.

The Mini-14 (as well as the Mini-30 and 10-22) were previously FID compliant, as none of them shipped with magazines in excess of 10 rounds.

However, over the last several years, new variations have been introduced that do ship with magazines in excess of 10 rounds.

Technically, this would cause them to be re-classified as "large capacity", but would potentially make a felon out of thousands of FID holders who obtained them prior.

The legal question that has yet to be adjudicated is, are all models now "large capacity", or just the particular models shipped with a "large capacity" magazine.

 

[jasons]

IANAL, but IMO they are now in a legal grey area.

The Mini-14 (as well as the Mini-30 and 10-22) were previously FID compliant, as none of them shipped with magazines in excess of 10 rounds.

However, over the last several years, new variations have been introduced that do ship with magazines in excess of 10 rounds.

Technically, this would cause them to be re-classified as "large capacity", but would potentially make a felon out of thousands of FID holders who obtained them prior.

The legal question that has yet to be adjudicated is, are all models now "large capacity", or just the particular models shipped with a "large capacity" magazine.

I've never understood the legal genesis of the "if it shipped with" theory. The law doesn't appear to include any such wording, so I can only assume that's someone's interpretation. I don't see how it could be correct - the MGL is very clear on this one.


EDIT: I see that wording in 501 CMR 7.09, I just don't understand where in the actual law it came from.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, 501 CMR 7.02 Definitions:

Capable of Accepting a Large Capacity Feeding Device
[FONT=LKAOBC+TimesNewRoman,Times New Roman][FONT=LKAOBC+TimesNewRoman,Times New Roman]means any firearm, rifle or shotgun in which a large capacity feeding device, as defined by M.G.L. c. 140, § 121, is capable of being used without alteration of the weapon; provided, however, that said feeding device is fully or partially inserted into the weapon or attached thereto, or is under the direct control of a person who also has direct control of a weapon capable of accepting said feeding device. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=LKAOBC+TimesNewRoman,Times New Roman][FONT=LKAOBC+TimesNewRoman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]

The bolded section indeed is NOT included in MGL but was intended as such (per research that GCAB did with authors of Ch. 180). No argument that this whole situation is ambiguous . . . and if GOAL was doing its job (IMNSHO) they would have addressed this legislatively (with a small bill) to correct this, but TTBOMK they have never addressed this separately (where it might actually pass into law).

---------

Yes, even my single-stack 1911s are capable of holding a large-cap mag and therefore by MGL definition "must be" LTC-A (large-cap) ONLY! Again, not intended, just "unintended consequences" where idiots that have no grasp on the subject write laws.

 

[white feather]

You said large cap mags. Mike Sr. warned me about people like you.

Did you mean LARGE CAP MAGS? That would be doubly bad... Skeetshooter, if you are 19, you have another reason to look forward to your 21st birthday. I can vaguely remember when I had only my FID card (valid until revoked). Hope you get a LTC A unrestricted. Or have the conviction/ability to leave the PRM. Good luck. Try not to do anything illegal and if you do, don't post about here.
White Feather