FFL application waiting time in mass

Thats where my confusion is, because since my premise is not zoned for retail I would not be able to aquire a MA dealer’s license, but if I have a business model thats focused mainly on repairs and shipping guns out of state that does not conform with the AWB then it seems strange how the restriction would still apply to me

That's even worse! You can't repair guns as a service in Mass without a gun smithing license. Assuming you're on the level, you really should do more research.


Logic is not part of the equation.
You require a dealer license in order to possess anything that is covered by the Mass AWB. If you don't have one then you cannot possess a covered firearm without being in jeopardy.
Also understand that your bound book is evidence of unlawful possession if you properly enter an AW. But not entering it puts you in federal jeopardy.

[18 U.S.C. 923(a); 27 CFR 478.42 and 478.50] An FFL can store firearms off premises and this doesn't appear to limit the storage to the same state. So, in theory, Sam could "technically" have an AW in his bound book but the firearm never entered the state. But even if the theory works legally (IANAL), it would be an expensive case to win in court, I bet.
 
That's even worse! You can't repair guns as a service in Mass without a gun smithing license. Assuming you're on the level, you really should do more research.
He's 25 and certain that he's found a never before imagined wallhack to the MA AWB. It's not like the Commonwealth is full of gun owners, dealers, and attorneys who've been looking at these laws for 25 years his entire life.
 
He's 25 and certain that he's found a never before imagined wallhack to the MA AWB. It's not like the Commonwealth is full of gun owners, dealers, and attorneys who've been looking at these laws for 25 years his entire life.

I briefly ran an FFL shop in the Mill. But I didn't have the time and resources to deal with that AND keep a regular job, then had an opportunity to get out of MA and shut it down several years ago. I don't want anybody (even our thread nooge) to give up their dreams or fail in them, either. But you gotta do the HOMEWORK and not assume you already know the answers. I hope to take another run at it when I retire from my day job.
 
I briefly ran an FFL shop in the Mill. But I didn't have the time and resources to deal with that AND keep a regular job, then had an opportunity to get out of MA and shut it down several years ago. I don't want anybody (even our thread nooge) to give up their dreams or fail in them, either. But you gotta do the HOMEWORK and not assume you already know the answers. I hope to take another run at it when I retire from my day job.
I appreciate the advice, my main issue is that my FFL premise is in a location zoned for only manufacturing and not retail so because of that I dont think I would be able to get a MA dealers license as well along with my FFL. I tried getting a spot in the mill but its kinda too late now lol
 
I appreciate the advice, my main issue is that my FFL premise is in a location zoned for only manufacturing and not retail so because of that I dont think I would be able to get a MA dealers license as well along with my FFL. I tried getting a spot in the mill but its kinda too late now lol

The MA Dealer license is a license to "License to Sell, Rent, or Lease Firearms, Rifles, Shotguns, or Machine Guns". That might imply retail but it isn't exclusive to retail. You should have no trouble getting the license (beyond dcjis foot dragging) for your location. That license is your stay out of jail card. It is literally the only way you'll be compliant with the AWB, FFL or no FFL.

My "manner" may be abrupt or abrasive, but honestly, I (and the others here) are just trying to help. Please do more research and also keep healthy skepticism for internet advice. Do your own research based on what you read here today.
 
The MA Dealer license is a license to "License to Sell, Rent, or Lease Firearms, Rifles, Shotguns, or Machine Guns". That might imply retail but it isn't exclusive to retail. You should have no trouble getting the license (beyond dcjis foot dragging) for your location. That license is your stay out of jail card. It is literally the only way you'll be compliant with the AWB, FFL or no FFL.

My "manner" may be abrupt or abrasive, but honestly, I (and the others here) are just trying to help. Please do more research and also keep healthy skepticism for internet advice. Do your own research based on what you read here today.
Gotchu, thanks for your input
 
As someone who just went through the process, here is what I discovered:

1. You can absolutely get a state license if you're not zoned for "retail." Zoning is different in each city and locale. Commercial means something different across cities/towns, as does industrial, etc. The ONLY requirement from the state is that you are not operating out of a residential area and that is "correctly zoned." If it's not residential, not in a school zone, etc. you're likely zoned correctly. You don't need a retail environment to be a state licensed arms retailer. This tripped me up for a good while because many will make it seem like you need a retail operation. You don't. Your ATF IOI checks if you're zoned correctly. If you got your FFL, there is a strong, almost guaranteed chance you'll qualify for the state license. It's highly encouraged you apply for the state license if only because it allows you to greatly diversify your business and you don't run afoul of the law as it's written, no matter how you interpret it. You can read the ownership of high capacity magazines as being exempt by having the 07 (manufacturing). But the AWB is firmly entrenched in the idea that you need a dealer's license.

2. Only a handful of cities/towns in MA have actual firearm ordinances. This will surprise many town officials who have never come across such a request before. In fact, most have no clue where to begin. They'll refer you to the PD. Then the PD will refer you back. I have been round tripped through local PD, to Solicitor General, to Zoning, to Building Inspection, back to SG on more than one occasion. What it will come down to is, as a commercial operation, what category do you fit into best and what are the requirements. If you're leasing a space in an industrial/commercial zone, that part is mostly taken care of. But the city will look for any reason to make you obtain additional licenses/permits. Keep pestering them and asking on progress and get updates at reasonable intervals. With the exception of a few cities/towns, you have to assume that you are a low priority and they are only dealing with you because they have to. State dealer license is "may issue." But a town simply not wanting to give you one w/ out any known published laws or ordinances can be problematic for them and a great reason to hire a lawyer.

3. The ATF, when they inspect your books/inventory, may not care about what you have in terms of "Assault Weapons" but they will care - and expressly notify the state - if you are found to have transferred any banned weapons to any MA residents. Some may also feel this way about you merely having such inventory in stock. Others may not care at all. In this climate, I would go with the assumption that they will tell the state. I was told this directly. Of course, you can manufacture something and make it compliant before it enters into commerce/inventory. Further, IOIs are not experts on state law. I've spoken to a few and all are different in the latitude and interpretation of laws as it pertains to FFLs and the relationship with the state. It's not as fuzzy as you may think, but the ATF does work closely with state law enforcement.

4. While you're waiting, there is still a lot you can do as a manufacturer. Frames/receivers are not regulated under state law. You can manufacture non-AWB weapons if that is your thing. You can do all the smithing work you want for out-of-state residents/other FFLs so as long as that item is not an AW under the ban. Basically, if a MIRCS check isn't required and you don't violate the AWB and other restrictions, you can start working in a limited capacity. In other words, do what we've always done and find different avenues and work arounds.

5. If you think the 2016 enforcement notice holds any weight, assault weapons expressly named or similar to those outlined in the AWB are prohibited unless you are LEO. And even then, the dealer/FFL can only order them for LE directly and hold them until transfer. That is to say, you cannot have any inventory unless attached to a LEO order form. Who knows where this will lead.
In summary, try and get the state dealer license. Unless a rewrite of MGL is in order in the next few months, you'll be swimming in exemptions and able to build whatever you'd like.
 
As someone who just went through the process, here is what I discovered:

1. You can absolutely get a state license if you're not zoned for "retail." Zoning is different in each city and locale. Commercial means something different across cities/towns, as does industrial, etc. The ONLY requirement from the state is that you are not operating out of a residential area and that is "correctly zoned." If it's not residential, not in a school zone, etc. you're likely zoned correctly. You don't need a retail environment to be a state licensed arms retailer. This tripped me up for a good while because many will make it seem like you need a retail operation. You don't. Your ATF IOI checks if you're zoned correctly. If you got your FFL, there is a strong, almost guaranteed chance you'll qualify for the state license. It's highly encouraged you apply for the state license if only because it allows you to greatly diversify your business and you don't run afoul of the law as it's written, no matter how you interpret it. You can read the ownership of high capacity magazines as being exempt by having the 07 (manufacturing). But the AWB is firmly entrenched in the idea that you need a dealer's license.

2. Only a handful of cities/towns in MA have actual firearm ordinances. This will surprise many town officials who have never come across such a request before. In fact, most have no clue where to begin. They'll refer you to the PD. Then the PD will refer you back. I have been round tripped through local PD, to Solicitor General, to Zoning, to Building Inspection, back to SG on more than one occasion. What it will come down to is, as a commercial operation, what category do you fit into best and what are the requirements. If you're leasing a space in an industrial/commercial zone, that part is mostly taken care of. But the city will look for any reason to make you obtain additional licenses/permits. Keep pestering them and asking on progress and get updates at reasonable intervals. With the exception of a few cities/towns, you have to assume that you are a low priority and they are only dealing with you because they have to. State dealer license is "may issue." But a town simply not wanting to give you one w/ out any known published laws or ordinances can be problematic for them and a great reason to hire a lawyer.

3. The ATF, when they inspect your books/inventory, may not care about what you have in terms of "Assault Weapons" but they will care - and expressly notify the state - if you are found to have transferred any banned weapons to any MA residents. Some may also feel this way about you merely having such inventory in stock. Others may not care at all. In this climate, I would go with the assumption that they will tell the state. I was told this directly. Of course, you can manufacture something and make it compliant before it enters into commerce/inventory. Further, IOIs are not experts on state law. I've spoken to a few and all are different in the latitude and interpretation of laws as it pertains to FFLs and the relationship with the state. It's not as fuzzy as you may think, but the ATF does work closely with state law enforcement.

4. While you're waiting, there is still a lot you can do as a manufacturer. Frames/receivers are not regulated under state law. You can manufacture non-AWB weapons if that is your thing. You can do all the smithing work you want for out-of-state residents/other FFLs so as long as that item is not an AW under the ban. Basically, if a MIRCS check isn't required and you don't violate the AWB and other restrictions, you can start working in a limited capacity. In other words, do what we've always done and find different avenues and work arounds.

5. If you think the 2016 enforcement notice holds any weight, assault weapons expressly named or similar to those outlined in the AWB are prohibited unless you are LEO. And even then, the dealer/FFL can only order them for LE directly and hold them until transfer. That is to say, you cannot have any inventory unless attached to a LEO order form. Who knows where this will lead.
In summary, try and get the state dealer license. Unless a rewrite of MGL is in order in the next few months, you'll be swimming in exemptions and able to build whatever you'd like.
Thank you so much for the response, I appreciate your input I will definitely be going for my MA dealers license now
 
As someone who just went through the process, here is what I discovered:

1. You can absolutely get a state license if you're not zoned for "retail." Zoning is different in each city and locale. Commercial means something different across cities/towns, as does industrial, etc. The ONLY requirement from the state is that you are not operating out of a residential area and that is "correctly zoned." If it's not residential, not in a school zone, etc. you're likely zoned correctly. You don't need a retail environment to be a state licensed arms retailer. This tripped me up for a good while because many will make it seem like you need a retail operation. You don't. Your ATF IOI checks if you're zoned correctly. If you got your FFL, there is a strong, almost guaranteed chance you'll qualify for the state license. It's highly encouraged you apply for the state license if only because it allows you to greatly diversify your business and you don't run afoul of the law as it's written, no matter how you interpret it. You can read the ownership of high capacity magazines as being exempt by having the 07 (manufacturing). But the AWB is firmly entrenched in the idea that you need a dealer's license.

2. Only a handful of cities/towns in MA have actual firearm ordinances. This will surprise many town officials who have never come across such a request before. In fact, most have no clue where to begin. They'll refer you to the PD. Then the PD will refer you back. I have been round tripped through local PD, to Solicitor General, to Zoning, to Building Inspection, back to SG on more than one occasion. What it will come down to is, as a commercial operation, what category do you fit into best and what are the requirements. If you're leasing a space in an industrial/commercial zone, that part is mostly taken care of. But the city will look for any reason to make you obtain additional licenses/permits. Keep pestering them and asking on progress and get updates at reasonable intervals. With the exception of a few cities/towns, you have to assume that you are a low priority and they are only dealing with you because they have to. State dealer license is "may issue." But a town simply not wanting to give you one w/ out any known published laws or ordinances can be problematic for them and a great reason to hire a lawyer.

3. The ATF, when they inspect your books/inventory, may not care about what you have in terms of "Assault Weapons" but they will care - and expressly notify the state - if you are found to have transferred any banned weapons to any MA residents. Some may also feel this way about you merely having such inventory in stock. Others may not care at all. In this climate, I would go with the assumption that they will tell the state. I was told this directly. Of course, you can manufacture something and make it compliant before it enters into commerce/inventory. Further, IOIs are not experts on state law. I've spoken to a few and all are different in the latitude and interpretation of laws as it pertains to FFLs and the relationship with the state. It's not as fuzzy as you may think, but the ATF does work closely with state law enforcement.

4. While you're waiting, there is still a lot you can do as a manufacturer. Frames/receivers are not regulated under state law. You can manufacture non-AWB weapons if that is your thing. You can do all the smithing work you want for out-of-state residents/other FFLs so as long as that item is not an AW under the ban. Basically, if a MIRCS check isn't required and you don't violate the AWB and other restrictions, you can start working in a limited capacity. In other words, do what we've always done and find different avenues and work arounds.

5. If you think the 2016 enforcement notice holds any weight, assault weapons expressly named or similar to those outlined in the AWB are prohibited unless you are LEO. And even then, the dealer/FFL can only order them for LE directly and hold them until transfer. That is to say, you cannot have any inventory unless attached to a LEO order form. Who knows where this will lead.
In summary, try and get the state dealer license. Unless a rewrite of MGL is in order in the next few months, you'll be swimming in exemptions and able to build whatever you'd like.
I also had this misconception all along too that not being “zoned for retail” could pose a problem dealing firearms in my premise but found out as well that as long as its not out of my residence, I should still be fine to get my dealers license and be able to sell in my premise afterwards
 
As someone who just went through the process, here is what I discovered:

1. You can absolutely get a state license if you're not zoned for "retail." Zoning is different in each city and locale. Commercial means something different across cities/towns, as does industrial, etc. The ONLY requirement from the state is that you are not operating out of a residential area and that is "correctly zoned." If it's not residential, not in a school zone, etc. you're likely zoned correctly. You don't need a retail environment to be a state licensed arms retailer. This tripped me up for a good while because many will make it seem like you need a retail operation. You don't. Your ATF IOI checks if you're zoned correctly. If you got your FFL, there is a strong, almost guaranteed chance you'll qualify for the state license. It's highly encouraged you apply for the state license if only because it allows you to greatly diversify your business and you don't run afoul of the law as it's written, no matter how you interpret it. You can read the ownership of high capacity magazines as being exempt by having the 07 (manufacturing). But the AWB is firmly entrenched in the idea that you need a dealer's license.

2. Only a handful of cities/towns in MA have actual firearm ordinances. This will surprise many town officials who have never come across such a request before. In fact, most have no clue where to begin. They'll refer you to the PD. Then the PD will refer you back. I have been round tripped through local PD, to Solicitor General, to Zoning, to Building Inspection, back to SG on more than one occasion. What it will come down to is, as a commercial operation, what category do you fit into best and what are the requirements. If you're leasing a space in an industrial/commercial zone, that part is mostly taken care of. But the city will look for any reason to make you obtain additional licenses/permits. Keep pestering them and asking on progress and get updates at reasonable intervals. With the exception of a few cities/towns, you have to assume that you are a low priority and they are only dealing with you because they have to. State dealer license is "may issue." But a town simply not wanting to give you one w/ out any known published laws or ordinances can be problematic for them and a great reason to hire a lawyer.

3. The ATF, when they inspect your books/inventory, may not care about what you have in terms of "Assault Weapons" but they will care - and expressly notify the state - if you are found to have transferred any banned weapons to any MA residents. Some may also feel this way about you merely having such inventory in stock. Others may not care at all. In this climate, I would go with the assumption that they will tell the state. I was told this directly. Of course, you can manufacture something and make it compliant before it enters into commerce/inventory. Further, IOIs are not experts on state law. I've spoken to a few and all are different in the latitude and interpretation of laws as it pertains to FFLs and the relationship with the state. It's not as fuzzy as you may think, but the ATF does work closely with state law enforcement.

4. While you're waiting, there is still a lot you can do as a manufacturer. Frames/receivers are not regulated under state law. You can manufacture non-AWB weapons if that is your thing. You can do all the smithing work you want for out-of-state residents/other FFLs so as long as that item is not an AW under the ban. Basically, if a MIRCS check isn't required and you don't violate the AWB and other restrictions, you can start working in a limited capacity. In other words, do what we've always done and find different avenues and work arounds.

5. If you think the 2016 enforcement notice holds any weight, assault weapons expressly named or similar to those outlined in the AWB are prohibited unless you are LEO. And even then, the dealer/FFL can only order them for LE directly and hold them until transfer. That is to say, you cannot have any inventory unless attached to a LEO order form. Who knows where this will lead.
In summary, try and get the state dealer license. Unless a rewrite of MGL is in order in the next few months, you'll be swimming in exemptions and able to build whatever you'd like.
And thanks so much for the other info of what else I could do as a Type 7 with no dealers license yet, so since I can access the NICS background check platform without a state dealers license, could I still do business with this like frame out a receiver or a frame from a complete gun by myself to an LTC holder and charge him a transfer fee?
 
OP just a word of advice: You need to do some homework real quick or you are eventually going to get jammed up six ways from Sunday.
A requirement of being an FFL is following all state laws, so you should have some idea of what they are.
Just because one ATF employee may not be fully up to speed on state laws and licensing requirement are, does not mean you don't have to be.
Ignorance is not a defense.
If you want to play FFL understand that you are going to have a spotlight on you and the laws of gravity (i.e. f*** around and find out) still apply.
You may have noticed FFL/Dealers have been seeing an increased level of scrutiny based on a few idiots who lacked common sense and any instinct for self preservation. Don't be that guy unless you don't mind spending a couple years in club fed.
straight-to-jail-crime.gif
 
And thanks so much for the other info of what else I could do as a Type 7 with no dealers license yet, so since I can access the NICS background check platform without a state dealers license, could I still do business with this like frame out a receiver or a frame from a complete gun by myself to an LTC holder and charge him a transfer fee?
Frames and receivers are not regulated as firearms in MA. In theory, and as some do in practice, you can transfer frames and receivers to a non-prohibited person via 4473/NICS. This is how they are processed by state dealers. Of course, the state/FRB would dislike/disagree. But it’s not regulated. My IOI said “it’s circumvention of state law to do that, but it is not a firearm.”

I think it’s far better to have a dealer do this than engaging in private sales of these items, which also isn’t prohibited under MA law as far as I can tell.

As far as transfers go, I’m not sure. You can 4473 your own items out of inventory if an LLC or corporation. But I always thought private party transfers needed to go through MIRCS. I’m probably wrong (I frequently am). I’m trying to give my brain a rest from all the ATF/firearms laws/rules/practices I’ve been learning.

Hopefully I’ll move through to the dealers license soon and a new headache can begin.

As always, I would ask a lawyer engrained in the community for advice and counsel. Just because something isn’t against the law doesn’t mean the state won’t try and crucify you for it.
 
That's even worse! You can't repair guns as a service in Mass without a gun smithing license. Assuming you're on the level, you really should do more research.




[18 U.S.C. 923(a); 27 CFR 478.42 and 478.50] An FFL can store firearms off premises and this doesn't appear to limit the storage to the same state. So, in theory, Sam could "technically" have an AW in his bound book but the firearm never entered the state. But even if the theory works legally (IANAL), it would be an expensive case to win in court, I bet.
I covered the storage thing in my IOI meeting briefly. The ATF doesn’t care where you store your firearms as long as it’s accessible. I have shipments go to different places. My take was that having an AW on your books could be okay depending on the IOI. But the moment you transfer it to someone in state without a license you’re screwed. So they really look at the dispositions. Especially to yourself. He straight up told me “If you violate the state AWB we will tell the state.”

Heard.

Still, it would be smartest, as you eluded to, to have a separate FFL if you’re getting MA defined assault weapons in another state. You can do the compliance work in that state and then transfer and be okay. Or sell online under that separate FFL. There are a few MA FFLs I’ve met that have locations in NH or ME for this type of thing.

Or, you can get the state dealers license and be done with it.
 
I also had this misconception all along too that not being “zoned for retail” could pose a problem dealing firearms in my premise but found out as well that as long as its not out of my residence, I should still be fine to get my dealers license and be able to sell in my premise afterwards
Yes. The laws in each city/town are confusing because there isn't a strict definition of commercial or industrial. I lease an industrially zoned space that intersects with a commercially zoned area. The town is trying to figure out what permits I'll need because of this, even though there isn't a single firearm related ordinance in any of the bylaws. The state/town situation is way worse than dealing with the ATF.
 
Yes. The laws in each city/town are confusing because there isn't a strict definition of commercial or industrial. I lease an industrially zoned space that intersects with a commercially zoned area. The town is trying to figure out what permits I'll need because of this, even though there isn't a single firearm related ordinance in any of the bylaws. The state/town situation is way worse than dealing with the ATF.
Yes its quite annoying, my premise is only zoned for industrial and am worried that because of that I could have complications applying for a dealers license
 
Yes. The laws in each city/town are confusing because there isn't a strict definition of commercial or industrial. I lease an industrially zoned space that intersects with a commercially zoned area. The town is trying to figure out what permits I'll need because of this, even though there isn't a single firearm related ordinance in any of the bylaws. The state/town situation is way worse than dealing with the ATF.
Even though state law doesn’t prevent me from doing so as it is not out of a residential or a school zone. Just the town trying to make things harder lol
 
Yes its quite annoying, my premise is only zoned for industrial and am worried that because of that I could have complications applying for a dealers license
unless your town specifically says in its bylaw that all businesses must operate in a commercially zoned area, you’ll be okay. Industrial usually encompasses commercial activities. Basically, if you’re “zoned for business” you’re good. But even if you are they can stonewall you. It’s the nature of local government.
 
unless your town specifically says in its bylaw that all businesses must operate in a commercially zoned area, you’ll be okay. Industrial usually encompasses commercial activities. Basically, if you’re “zoned for business” you’re good. But even if you are they can stonewall you. It’s the nature of local government.
Yes 100% thanks for all of your responses and helping me out. I’m just going to have to keep pestering them if the town tries to put any obstacles in my path but yes eventually I should be fine and be able to aquire one as theres no law that would prevent me, just the town people might give me some trouble about it as always but have to overcome it
 
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