FBI Identification Record VS NCIS

[onlyinmass]

I was wondering if the FBI Identification Record and The National Instant Criminal Background Check System are the same things? the reason I ask is because I submit a FOIA request to the FBI and provided them with my fingerprints ( prints were taking at my local PD) and within 2 months I got the response from the FBI with a " no record".
in Mass I had an OUI in 1999 and It used to be on my Cori until 10 yrs passed and it has been sealed since then ( I know that even sealed it can be viewed by the firearms review board and LEO)
Basically I'm just confused about the whole Federal PP and if they go by State records VS FBI records or ATF records as it appear that the FBI is the only clearing house and not the ATF or the local state for any kind of background check when it comes to gun ownership.

 

[drgrant]

NICS is operated by the FBI. Why not ask them? BTW, the police will see your OUI from 1999, the "sealed record" BS means nothing to law enforcement... only employers running a standard CORI, which is crap basically. If this is for an LTC, you MUST disclose everything, otherwise they -WILL-catch you in a perjury trap, so don't even think about omitting something.

How was the OUI panned out? If you were convicted you're basically screwed in MA. If it is a CWOF or something like that you might have a
chance, and you probably should retain a gun lawyer for your application.

-Mike

 

[onlyinmass]

Forgot to add that I'm preparing for the review board and having gathering all my paperwork's and records thus I had requested for the FBI background check ( I had to pay $18) , I need to get a copy of my Cori as well and go to the Original police station to get the police or arrest record from my OUI from 12 yrs ago.
Lots of paper to gather ...

 

[el duderino]

Naval Criminal Investigative Service?

Im guessing theyre not the same, the odds of government agencies actually sharing information effectively are low. Though id expect the FBI records to be the most complete.

 

[onlyinmass]

I'm well aware that Sealed record can be viewed by LEO and Police and I will never lie about anything in my records and would always be upfront and disclose it and my question were only for education purposes and I had already called my Local PD and spoke with the local Firearm officer and he was verry nice to me and said that he understand my pain and to go ahead and fill a petition with the board and then apply with them and see what happened. If I'm disqualified for Life then " SO BE IT" I'm just going to try to petition the Review board and take it from there. I screwed up 12 yrs ago and I'm well aware of my mistake and had plenty time to reflect and I'm the only one to blame if my Gun ownership is gone for ever. At least I would have fought and did everything in my power and within the law.
What a lawyer will do better then me ? If You say I'm already Screwed up ( no sense to pay 3000 for the lawyer to gather all my paperwork's when I can do that job myself )

NICS is operated by the FBI. Why not ask them? BTW, the police will see your OUI from 1999, the "sealed record" BS means nothing to law enforcement... only employers running a standard CORI, which is crap basically. If this is for an LTC, you MUST disclose everything, otherwise they -WILL-catch you in a perjury trap, so don't even think about omitting something.

How was the OUI panned out? If you were convicted you're basically screwed in MA. If it is a CWOF or something like that you might have a
chance, and you probably should retain a gun lawyer for your application.

-Mike

 

[onlyinmass]

Sorry for Typo I meant the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) and not Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)

Naval Criminal Investigative Service?

Im guessing theyre not the same, the odds of government agencies actually sharing information effectively are low. Though id expect the FBI records to be the most complete.

 

[waltherlover]

Here's where things get rather interesting. My FBI record shows an offense from when I was a juvenile, but it's completely gone in MA (part of the court agreement). Really, I went to the courthouse to try to find the records, and they are gone. I'm not sure if they still show up for the LEOs, but I report it anyway since it's on my federal record.

It causes issues with my security clearances sometimes as well, since they want documentation of an offense that doesn't exist anymore locally. Actually, that's not entirely true, some agency managed to dig up the actual arrest records, but the court records don't seem to exist.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Forgot to add that I'm preparing for the review board and having gathering all my paperwork's and records thus I had requested for the FBI background check ( I had to pay $18) , I need to get a copy of my Cori as well and go to the Original police station to get the police or arrest record from my OUI from 12 yrs ago.
Lots of paper to gather ...

The NICS will not accept a FLRB relief from disabilities as removing the conviction as they consider it less than a full pardon, and any appeal attempting to have your name removed from the NICS prohibited person database will fail.

 

[Kevlar]

The NICS will not accept a FLRB relief from disabilities as removing the conviction as they consider it less than a full pardon, and any appeal attempting to have your name removed from the NICS prohibited person database will fail.

We have no information to suggest NICS isn't honoring FLRB restorations beyond the chest puffing of some [strike]gunrunners[/strike]ATF field training personnel...

Kevlar confused.

ETA: cross-posted here: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/134980-Enos-v.-Holder-Survives-MTD

 

[Rob Boudrie]

We have no information to suggest NICS isn't honoring FLRB restorations beyond the chest puffing of some gunrunnersATF field training personnel...

I will ask T. Former about this. I hope he is right.

 

[Kevlar]

I will ask T. Former about this. I hope he is right.

Thanks Rob.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I think I can clear this up a little bit. There may be a difference of opinion between DOB/FBI/NICS and BATFE over how and when rights can be restored, so the OP's situation is murky at best. Comm2A is involved with two separate activities designed to shed a little more light on this possible disconnect. One of these activities has resulted in a very telling and deafening silence. The other project will have an actionable result one way or the other in a few months time. I'm 'cautiously optimistic' that if the OP has his rights restored in MA via FLRB relief, he will have nothing to worry about federally.

There's a similar case pending in California: Enos v. Holder.

 

[onlyinmass]

My question was in relation to NICS and if it's pretty much the Same as an FBI record check.
as I'm preparing all my paperwork's for a FRLB petition I had request an FBI Identification for myself and it came back as " no Record"
My Cori now Show also " No record" because the OUI case has been sealed per MGL c. 276, s.100C tho it's still can be viewed by LEO or firearms review board ( Had to wait 10 yrs ) and once I got it sealed they just past a new CORI law where the waiting period for sealing a misdemeanor is 5 yrs.

I think I can clear this up a little bit. There may be a difference of opinion between DOB/FBI/NICS and BATFE over how and when rights can be restored, so the OP's situation is murky at best. Comm2A is involved with two separate activities designed to shed a little more light on this possible disconnect. One of these activities has resulted in a very telling and deafening silence. The other project will have an actionable result one way or the other in a few months time. I'm 'cautiously optimistic' that if the OP has his rights restored in MA via FLRB relief, he will have nothing to worry about federally.

There's a similar case pending in California: Enos v. Holder.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

My question was in relation to NICS and if it's pretty much the Same as an FBI record check.

They are not exactly the same thing. I'm not sure what an "FBI record check" entails, but a NICS check is a very specific query of multiple data bases according to a very specific procedure. If you are granted FLRB relief, you may still be denied when a NICS check is run pursuant to a firearms purchase.

 

[drgrant]

sorry to hi-jack, but my NICS came back with a Delay, does that always take the whole 3 days or is there a chance that I'll get a call today (bought it saturday) or tomorrow and they'll say its ok to pick up

You can get delayed anywhere from 10 minutes, an hour, a day, or the full 3 days.

If you keep getting delayed you will want to get a VAF UPIN. Otherwise it'll just keep happening and you'll go through the same BS every time you buy a gun.

-Mike

 

[onlyinmass]

According to the FBI and FBI Record check is :

An FBI Identification Record—often referred to as a criminal history record or a “rap sheet”—is a listing of certain information taken from fingerprint submissions retained by the FBI in connection with arrests and, in some instances, federal employment, naturalization, or military service. The process of responding to an Identification Record request is generally known as a criminal background check.

If the fingerprints are related to an arrest, the Identification Record includes name of the agency that submitted the fingerprints to the FBI, the date of the arrest, the arrest charge, and the disposition of the arrest, if known to the FBI. All arrest data included in an Identification Record is obtained from fingerprint submissions, disposition reports, and other information submitted by agencies having criminal justice responsibilities.

The U.S. Department of Justice Order 556-73 establishes rules and regulations for the subject of an FBI Identification Record to obtain a copy of his or her own record for review. The FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division processes these requests.

They are not exactly the same thing. I'm not sure what an "FBI record check" entails, but a NICS check is a very specific query of multiple data bases according to a very specific procedure. If you are granted FLRB relief, you may still be denied when a NICS check is run pursuant to a firearms purchase.

 

[snake eater 332]

I am a LEO in CT and not entirely familiar with Mass criminal laws, but when local and state LE agencies make an arrest, not all criminal charges are reported to the FBI. Normally only arrests where felonies are involved are submitted to the FBI. If there are also misdemeanor charges associated with the felony arrest, then these charges would also be forwarded to the FBI with the felony FBI fingerprint cards, as all of the charges would be on the same card.

The FBI is not really concerned with DWI/DUI/OUI arrests (or whatever it may be called in your state), as these are usually misdemeanor motor vehicle charges. Therefore, misdemeanors in most cases wouldn't necessarily show up on an FBI NICS check.

The only misdemeanor charges the FBI may be interested in may ones involving domestic violence, as theses charges affect your ability to buy or possess a firearm nationally.

As an LEO, if I wanted to get your entire criminal history, felonies and misdemeanors, I would conduct a check in state and a III (triple I) check to query each state where you've been arrested to get all that info.

 

[onlyinmass]

Thanks for the Info Snake eater , it's very interesting.

My only brush with the law was for an single OUI (DWI) back in 1999 for which I got 6 month probation and case was closed it's a Misdemeanor in Mass but they change the law in 1998 and made the maximum sentence to 2.5 yrs thus it's a DQ and PP for the feds and that's why I'm hoping to be able to get a favorable decision from the MASS Firearms Licensing Review Board.
To be honest I don't even remember if the arresting officer took my fingerprints. ( this happened 12 yrs ago)
Well I got a lot on my plate now as I need to gather all the documentation related to that incident and then petition the Board and hope and pray I can get my right reinstated.

I am a LEO in CT and not entirely familiar with Mass criminal laws, but when local and state LE agencies make an arrest, not all criminal charges are reported to the FBI. Normally only arrests where felonies are involved are submitted to the FBI. If there are also misdemeanor charges associated with the felony arrest, then these charges would also be forwarded to the FBI with the felony FBI fingerprint cards, as all of the charges would be on the same card.

The FBI is not really concerned with DWI/DUI/OUI arrests (or whatever it may be called in your state), as these are usually misdemeanor motor vehicle charges. Therefore, misdemeanors in most cases wouldn't necessarily show up on an FBI NICS check.

The only misdemeanor charges the FBI may be interested in may ones involving domestic violence, as theses charges affect your ability to buy or possess a firearm nationally.

As an LEO, if I wanted to get your entire criminal history, felonies and misdemeanors, I would conduct a check in state and a III (triple I) check to query each state where you've been arrested to get all that info.

 

[snake eater 332]

Good luck with your hearing/appeal!

In CT, we issue a Motor Vehicle (Misdemeanor) Summons (to court) for DWI and it's a mandatory minimum $500 bond. We do not fingerprint for DWI arrests. However, DWI does become a felony in CT after your 3rd conviction.

I think in almost all cases, your DWI/OUI arrest info is not being forwarded to the FBI other than for generic UCR reporting, the report your local and state LE agencies make to the FBI on crime statistics every year.

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

The thing most people don't understand is that on your first conviction in Mass since 1994 you are a Federally prohibited person, due to the sentence a conviction carries. More people have traded their second amendment in this state for "one more beer" than you could count. Holds true for free staters here on vacation as well. The list of oui's weekly on the Cape alone is staggering. It's a misdemeanor but the sentence it carries puts you in Felony land as the Feds see it. Good luck with your hearing. Let us know if you get everything restored. You might be the first if you do.

 

[onlyinmass]

I got to say some people on the board seem to be discouraging me.
At least I got something positive from a member who was able to get his gun right back after having an OUI.

The thing most people don't understand is that on your first conviction in Mass since 1994 you are a Federally prohibited person, due to the sentence a conviction carries. More people have traded their second amendment in this state for "one more beer" than you could count. Holds true for free staters here on vacation as well. The list of oui's weekly on the Cape alone is staggering. It's a misdemeanor but the sentence it carries puts you in Felony land as the Feds see it. Good luck with your hearing. Let us know if you get everything restored. You might be the first if you do.

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

Not trying to be discouraging towards you at all. You have a long uphill battle against two entities the state and the Feds. Neither of which could really care less if you can ever own a firearm again. I applaud you for the fact your trying to get it fixed. And I hope you pull it off. The fact that this happens to so many people in Mass is insane. I know of two guys that plead guilty to oui at their lawyers advice only to finds out years later that they would never be able to go shooting with their kids. No one ever thought past saving on legal fees and getting it over with. Both said had they known about being a prohibited person they would have fought tooth and nail to win in court. This is a great back door attack on the 2nd amendment here in Mass it's no mistake that they set it up this way. Good luck on getting this fixed. And keep us posted on it.

 

[onlyinmass]

Well A fellow member on this forum said that he successfully petition the Mass FRLB and got his gun right back.
I don't know if he was able to secure and FID or LTC from his Local IA or nor if He was able to purchase a firearms form a FFL and pass the NICS but at least I can hope that there is always a second chance.

Not trying to be discouraging towards you at all. You have a long uphill battle against two entities the state and the Feds. Neither of which could really care less if you can ever own a firearm again. I applaud you for the fact your trying to get it fixed. And I hope you pull it off. The fact that this happens to so many people in Mass is insane. I know of two guys that plead guilty to oui at their lawyers advice only to finds out years later that they would never be able to go shooting with their kids. No one ever thought past saving on legal fees and getting it over with. Both said had they known about being a prohibited person they would have fought tooth and nail to win in court. This is a great back door attack on the 2nd amendment here in Mass it's no mistake that they set it up this way. Good luck on getting this fixed. And keep us posted on it.