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Wonderful.. so I have still have to go back to Ohio every year to qualify..
I'll stick my neck out here and say that I oppose any special provisions for retired police. Police are hired to serve the public in a specific capacity, and provisions that make them something other than "ordinary citizens" upon retirement serve to separate them from the rest of the population, and create a privileged class.
If retired police don't have to deal with the same hassles of restricted zones; non-resident licenses; discretionary issue; etc. as the rest of the peons, how can we ever expect them to show any concern for civilian rights? Furthermore, I would rather that the currently serving police have a mindset of "I too will be a civilian like you some day" rather than "I will be immune from laws that apply to you" even after I retire.
And yes, I know that strictly speaking, police are civilians too - but I trust the meaning in this context is clear.
I am sure that the retired police on this forum will have all sorts of reasons why they should have special rights that are not granted to ordinary citizens with spotless records. Sorry, I don't buy that.
My neck is out there with you, Rob. I agree completely.
If retired police don't have to deal with the same hassles of restricted zones; non-resident licenses; discretionary issue; etc. as the rest of the peons, how can we ever expect them to show any concern for civilian rights?
Maybe it's just a perk for missing holidays and other family events for thirty years and dealing with all the crap no one else wanted to be bothered.
Then by that statement, why should ex-military get all the special treatment? Do they not get veteran's benefits that the average citizen not get? Guess that makes them special too? Do you want to argue against that?
Seems like too many like to sit home at night when the others are stuck outside dealing with the crap but want nothing better than to nit pick on every little flaw or benefit.....
To be perfectly clear, the LE community doesn't impose these laws on anyone. The elected legislators do. If you check further, you will see that most, if not all rank and file police organizations have stated that excessive laws governing firearm's laws for the law abiding citizens are useless. So far to date the only group supporting additional legislation reducing rights and outright bans in other cases is the IACP which ranks right up there with any other political organization out of touch with reality.be exempt from any laws they spent their career imposing on others.
Then by that statement, why should ex-military get all the special treatment? Do they not get veteran's benefits that the average citizen not get? Guess that makes them special too? Do you want to argue against that?
How many here can be pulled over for an obvious DUI and not even be charged/arrested and the encounter treated as if it never happened? How about a moving violation being waved off or parking ticket never being issued? Does the average person enjoy that "benefit"?Seems like too many like to sit home at night when the others are stuck outside dealing with the crap but want nothing better than to nit pick on every little flaw or benefit. Think the job is so great, try to get on a department and get all the "benefits". No one but some here want to think that the LE community thinks they are "special" when in fact we get screwed more than most. How many here can get a DWI and be garenteed the lose of a job.
A conviction of an offense, regardless of how minor is cause for forfitting the job.
Every pain in the butt has the right to file anonymously a complaint leaving not recourse or defense due to the fact they are unknown. And yet the complaint is filed in your personnel file as if it had legitimacy.
But... does it actually happen? (that is unless for personal reasons, management is just waiting for the person involved to f***-up so they can be fired).
Honestly... how much creditability is given by the brass with regard to anonymous complaints? They probably laugh at them like you.I or anyone else would.
Really? If you can get a permit that allows you to carry in New York state, and one to carry in New Jersey, then you, my friend, have a special privilege. New York doesn't even HAVE a provision for a non-resident carry permit, and as for NJ... you either have to be LE, or a security guard (and you can only carry while you're working). So don't tell me that you don't get a special privilege that I can't get; I don't believe it.Retired police do have to abide by the same restrictions as civilians, as so out of state LE officers.
Probably everyone here with a security clearance would be sweating bullets for something like that... and THEY don't have the nifty little "thin blue line" sticker on their cars to let the other cops know that they're one and to treat them nice. How many times have we read about some cop leaving their gun somewhere and getting a slap on the wrist for it? A civilian in MA would certainly have his permit pulled - and probably prosecuted for something or other as well.How many here can get a DWI and be garenteed the lose of a job. A conviction of an offense, regardless of how minor is cause for forfitting the job.
Really? If you can get a permit that allows you to carry in New York state, and one to carry in New Jersey, then you, my friend, have a special privilege. New York doesn't even HAVE a provision for a non-resident carry permit, and as for NJ... you either have to be LE, or a security guard (and you can only carry while you're working). So don't tell me that you don't get a special privilege that I can't get; I don't believe it.
Based on what you said, I would not have had to arrest one of my patrol officers for a DV. Guess he got let go. Not to mention other who when through the system due to incidents involving family/girlfriends. But guess what. The average citizen gets to go about their business if involved in a DV. We get suspended without a trial and don't work until it's adjudicated which may be months or longer. What a benefit. Get convicted of anything involving DV and you're gone, no appeal.
That isn't management's prerogative. It is NJ State law enacted several years back. Better yet, the DV laws are applied retroactively to LE in the state when applied to DV with no statute of limitations. Another benefit.
We always get let go if stopped for DWI. That's why two of my people were fired after being convicted of DWI. Both should have lost their job and due to the arresting officers doing their job saved me and my town a lot of grief.
Normal people would think so. And yet they cannot be disregarded and must, by the AG rulings, entered into your personnel file for LIFE. Not as dismissed but unsubstantiated. By the AG's guidelines, that means there was not enough to prove the charge, but it could not be disproved. They aren't laughed off as I was stuck handled some of them.
I guess everyone EVERY stopped for a moving violation was issued a summons. Guess we won't hear one story about how they were stopped, issued a warning and sent one their way. Short memories if I can't get at least one to step up.
Parking tickets??? Now you're reaching. I've bypassed parking violations...Maybe I should have issued the one for two feet into the yellow zone. Then someone could bitch about how we had nothing better to do or a donut joke.Probably the only one hundred percent issuance on parking was for Handicap. No one was bypassed if not entitled to that space. Which way do you want it. total enforcement or discretion? I guess it depends on which end you're on. I NEVER hear complaints about how someone gets stopped for doing only fifteen miles over the speed limit. And yet now I hear how some are let go......
I guess I could come up with some stats to justify why no one outside of the police profession should even be allowed a firearm. In thirty years I can not cite ONE instance where a legally owned firearm stopped a crime in my town. I can cite one mistaken shooting and death by a homeowner who killed their niece living in the house because of a failure to determine their intended target. A father how told his daughter's boyfriend who he did not like to wait at the front door while he went to the back of the house to get a shotgun where he then proceeded to shot him, killing him instantly. The killing of a girl's brother by her boyfriend because they disliked each other. Three murder-suicides and several suicides.
Yet I still, obviously back firearm's ownership. I realize these are tragic yet isolated incidents. Yet, unlike you, I don't see them as representative as the ENTIRE firearm owning population.
Stereotypes and unfounded opinions based on misconceptions and hearsay are dangerous. Now if you take this to imply that mistakes are never made in LE, don't I've seen them and I've found LE is their own worst critic. We have to sit and take the heat and have the entire profession judged by the screwup, intentional or not of a few. Kind of like firearm's ownership.
Basically all you are wishing for is even less private ability to carry a firearm concealed outside the profession of LE. We can keep this up to the point when no one will have the right. Keep relying on the 2nd. Amendment and you will get burnt. Remember the 21st. Amendment. Nothing is carved in stone that politicians can't repeal. It wouldn't be the first time.
I did NOT post this thread to create a shit-storm, and we don't allow Cop-bashing on NES.
The Cop-haters will be happy to know that retired LEOs in MA will be getting shafted in the MA implementation of LEOSA and treated not much better than "almost everyone else".
Len, I apologize if I came across as "cop-bashing"; I was trying to make the point that the law, as written, whether neutered in MA or not (and it certainly sounds like the cops living in MA ARE getting the fuzzy side of the lollipop!), it is a special privilege that civilians do not have.I did NOT post this thread to create a shit-storm, and we don't allow Cop-bashing on NES.
What Constitutional grounds exist that would make "veteran's benefits" an extended right that the average citizen can't enjoy also?
How many here can be pulled over for an obvious DUI and not even be charged/arrested and the encounter treated as if it never happened? How about a moving violation being waved off or parking ticket never being issued? Does the average person enjoy that "benefit"?
Unless it's a MPA sticker (in Massachusetts) - Serial numbered, issued only to police, and subject to confiscation if found on a civilian vehicle.Some as*hole puts a decal on his car and think he has cart blanc is in for a rude awakening.
I think retired LEOs should be allowed to carry. I also think everyone else who is not federally prohibited should as well.
I expect everyone on this list is in agreement. Assuming the only two choices are "everyone is treated the same", or "retired LEOs get treated differently than ordinary people", which would you choose? That is the essence of the issue under discussion.I think retired LEOs should be allowed to carry. I also think everyone else who is not federally prohibited should as well.