EASTERN FRONT SHOOTOUT! 1940/147 K98k vs. 1939 Ishevek M91/30

[majspud]

And now, the main event! Time: June 1941, place: the border of Germany and the Soviet Union (Sippican R&G), the contestants: 1940 code 147 J.P. Sauer K98k versus 1939 Ishevek M91/30.

Details:

K98k: 1940, 147 (5208g), Mitchell rearsenaled RC. Yes, MITCHELL. I admit it. I have served my penance by de-Mitchellizing it; matching: receiver, barrel, front sight. Beyond the re-stamped non-WaA parts, I replaced any non WaA37 part with correct ones (follower, ejector box, firing pin, trigger, sear), found a pair of "08" trigger screws and WaA37 capture screws. Stock looks correct, laminate/flat butt-plate, but is a Weimar WaA63 10" stock. Good plus barrel, reproduction sling, original WaA37 sight cover.

M91/30: 1939, Ishevek, Soviet rearsenaled #3152, all matching with no line outs. Arctic birch stock and original sling, barrel good.

Ammo: K98k - 20 rounds 1993 M75 Yugo surplus, M91/30 - 20 rounds 1980 Bulgarian light ball surplus.

Conditions: 100 yards, seated, sling rest.

The results: 15 hits for the M91/30 (R), 21 hits for the K98k (L).

Yes, 21; something was rotten in Denmark. I know I missed a few early with the m91/30 until I remembered how low I had to aim (bottom of the target stand). Must have let one slip to the other target. After the third shot, the K98k was sighted right at the bulls eye. As I'm left handed I think I pulled a little left. The M91/30 was shot without the bayonet; I've heard that they were sighted for use with them.

Winner: K98k at 1X, 4x10, 8x9; vs. M91/30 of 1X, 2x10, 6x9

P.S. Never use the stock cleaning kit on a M91/30 with the muzzle protector. The cleaning rod is too short to get the jag into the receiver to remove the patch, and you can't pull it backwards. I had to pull back towards the muzzle to add pressure to unscrew the jag and then punch it out with the cleaning rod while removing the muzzle protector!

MS

 

[USMA-82]

Sorry... you lost me at MITCHELL.

Nice shoot out, though.

 

[40 caliber]

the mauser wins the shoot out with a mauser guy at the helm hmmmmm.........
If I did not like shooting my Mauser more than my Nagant, I would cry foul........... but I will let this one pass

good shoot out.

 

[majspud]

the mauser wins the shoot out with a mauser guy at the helm hmmmmm.........
If I did not like shooting my Mauser more than my Nagant, I would cry foul........... but I will let this one pass

good shoot out.

I was the soul of impartiality!

MS

 

[Karl]

As much as I like both rifles.... I'm not surprised. The Mosin is last weeks AK. The Mauser is a fine piece of German engineering.... It's semantics.

Thanks to MS.... every time you post pictures I wanna buy stuff...

 

[Pilgrim]

The 91/30 should have done better. I'll bet you were 'anticipating' the horrible Mosin recoil.

Did you shoot the 91/30 after finishing up with the 98 ? Possibly you were already 'shoulder weary' from the shooting the 98.

If so, next time, try the 91/30 first.

I like the 98 but the 91/30 should perform better than the 98....longer barrel, higher power cartridge.

 

[majspud]

Pilgrim,

M91/30 went first. My rifle does not have a real clear set point on the trigger so I'm never too sure when it will go off. The more gently I pull, the more I feel the very slight tension before trigger trip. Very easy to go through it. Kind of hard to anticipate that. The K98k has a rock steady trigger set.

MS

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm never too sure when it will go off. Kind of hard to anticipate that.

Ah ha ! that explains it, user error !!!!

 

[Kurtz]

A K-31 will take both of them out

 

[majspud]

Ah ha ! that explains it, user error !!!!

All right, if it makes you feel better, I'll redo the test. I only have one M91/30, and my last 20 rounds of 1984 Bulgarian light ball.

Pick your K98k:

S/42G, matching bolt restored RC, good bore, "A+" shooter
1938 BSW, Romanian/Albanian capture, matching action less bolt, VG+ bore, "A" shooter
1940 147, Mitchell re-arsenal RC, good+ bore, "A-" shooter
1943 bnz SSZA4, restored RC, good bore, "B+" shooter
1943 byf, bolt MM bring back, restored duffel cut, excellent bore, "A-" shooter
1944 DOT scrubbed bolt MM Romanian capture, AG bore, "C+" shooter
1944 (1945, 5-digit serial) bolt MM Romanian capture, G bore, "C+" shooter

I have 45 rounds of 1993 Yugo, 15 rounds 1984 Yugo, and 30 rounds 1956 Yugo.

Which one first? Other conditions?

The contestants:

MS

 

[50 BMG]

If you want a "real" test I will use one of my original Mosins against your Mauser. I will use Czec silver tip surplus ammunition. I will even offer up my club as a place to shoot. Game?

 

[majspud]

Game.

Where, when?

MS

 

[50 BMG]

Mansfield Fish and Game. Let me check the calender at the club. I will PM you the dates and times , we can work something out.

Remember Stalingrad . The real test of a Mauser and a Mosin.

 

[majspud]

Mansfield Fish and Game. Let me check the calender at the club. I will PM you the dates and times , we can work something out.

Remember Stalingrad . The real test of a Mauser and a Mosin.

50BMG,

Do you have a preference on my K98k or ammo?

MS

 

[50 BMG]

No as long as it is surplus ammo and original surplus rifle. (All original parts) No Timney triggers etc.. . ... If you need 8mm I have a bunch. Yugo, Romanian. We can even use a front rest. Then the 10 ring should be cut out of the targets by the end of the day, by both rifles.

I will use any excuse to hit the range.

p.s. you can clean your rifles there as well.

 

[majspud]

I have 90 rounds of all types; enough? I'll bring my newest, 1938 BSW; maybe the S/42G.

MS

 

[SKS Ray]

Sounds like the making of a milsurp competition shoot... I want in.

 

[majspud]

I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. Didn't we just have a C&R shoot at Mansfield? I know; I was there.

MS

 

[SKS Ray]

I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. Didn't we just have a C&R shoot at Mansfield? I know; I was there.

MS

That was an anything goes shoot. The first Mansfield NES shoots were C&R guns only. They were held with target shooting at paper with any rifle that qualified for C&R status, then blasting at clays.

I'd love to see another shoot like this but with the rounds designated for certain rifle types such as 1st being Russian Mosins vs German Mausers and then have it trickle down from there maybe with the winners of the first round facing off against winners from the second. Kind of like a which is the better C&R rifle match.

 

[majspud]

Well, me and a couple shooters will be there...and 90 rounds unless I can get more.

MS

 

[40 caliber]

in - when?

 

[50 BMG]

If we want to have a shoot I need to run it by Derek first.

My thoughts : it would be a true C+R shoot, paper targets out to 100 yards. We could shoot as teams, highest score for the team, three on a team. Start out Mosins vs Mausers, ( of course Mosins are listed first) Then Swiss vs British, etc. Work our way to SKS by country. Sound like a plan????? This would have to be a limited number of shooters and not open to all or a free for all shoot at clays. If folks are interested post here and then I will ask Derek for permission and look for available dates. It will have to be occur prior to September, my term as president expires then[sad2]

 

[SKS Ray]

I'm up for it

 

[USMA-82]

Excellent! I'm in, if the final date is right.


Some other match-ups I'd like to see:

French MAS 49 vs. FN-49 (any flavor)

Czech Vz-52/57 vs. SKS (any flavor)

Egyptian Hakim vs. Swedish AG-42 Ljungman

Russian SVT-40 vs. M-1 Garand


Ouch! That's alot of clean-up afterwards....

*

 

[Karl]

I'd add German G43 vs. Garand.

 

[USMA-82]

I'd add German G43 vs. Garand.

I was thinking about that one, but I was trying to steer towards milsurps people are likely to have. G43's are rare and pretty pricey compared to others on the list. Love to see it in action, though.

 

[Karl]

I was thinking about that one, but I was trying to steer towards milsurps people are likely to have. G43's are rare and pretty pricey compared to others on the list. Love to see it in action, though.

I wish I could make it.... I have one.... well a K43... I never did understand that.

 

[majspud]

Oh Lord, what have I done?

I would LOVE to see a real G43; my dream rifle. If any 8mm shooter has extra surplus, I'd like a PM so I could get 1-200 rounds if possible.

While we're at it, anyone got a Potato Masher? Might as well end things with a bang!

MS

 

[Karl]

Oh Lord, what have I done?

I would LOVE to see a real G43; my dream rifle. If any 8mm shooter has extra surplus, I'd like a PM so I could get 1-200 rounds if possible.

While we're at it, anyone got a Potato Masher? Might as well end things with a bang!

MS

If you're up my way, lemme know...

 

[50 BMG]

possible candidates for the Mosin Mauser shoot off.View attachment 11596