DUI = Loss of LTC ?

Thanks Terraformer - That was what I also understood when I read everything but it is very hard to get validation. I'm fighting the good fight up north and am hopefully that it will be resolved. It was so board line and still my own fault and stupidity that triggered this whole mess. 0.085 without any other cause was enough to put me in this position. I'm not a big guy and couple beers was enough to do the trick. For a guy who follows every rule to the T with a clean record up until now this has been devastating.
Message to all. think once, think twice...and then think again. The standards are so low you won't even know if you are over the limit. You don't want to go through this, its just not worth it.
 
edin508 said:
Does he have personal experience with this?
I sure as hell do!
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People can have lots of experience and be wrong. The demarcation is 2 years or less so a 2 year max sentence is NOT a disqualifier federally or state based (unless it's for guns, drugs, or dv). There is nothing else to say on the subject.
 
Doghead said:
Message to all. think once, think twice...and then think again. The standards are so low you won't even know if you are over the limit. You don't want to go through this, its just not worth it.
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No joke! Cost Me, thousands. I just stopped drinking all together.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
A DUI conviction in MA on or after May 27, 1994 makes the subject a federally prohibited person. This is for an actual "conviction" - a CWOF is not a conviction for the purposes of state and federal firearms disqualification, however, it is treated as if it is a conviction for determination if a subsequent DUI offense is a "repeat offense".

Although the FLRB can grant state level relief from the DUI disability, the feds and NICS will not accept this relief as valid as the federal position is that you can only be given back you gun rights by the state as part of "civil rights restoration" and, since DUI does not trigger a loss of voting rights, FLRB restoration of gun rights is not "restoration of civil rights". (We're talking major league newspeak here).



If the DUI happened 2 years ago, and was a conviction (not a CWOF that bears certain practical similarities to a conviction) for DUI in MA, the police department is prohibited by statute from issuing him an LTC. Yes, he can get FLRB relief after 5 years with a bit of luck, but see my earlier comment on how that does not resolve the federal disability.

Either the information is not precisely as you stated, or the PD issued your friend an LTC in violation of MGL.
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i will have to give him a call and ask him about the "guilty" finding ... now im curious !
 
You think you have it bad, I have a cdl .04 is my legal limit 24,7 in my own personal car. I cant go out to eat and have a few beers.
 
im not sure if it flipps the script at all , yes it was a guilty conviction ,but it happened out of state while resideing in MA
 
M1911 said:
1) Are you sure that he pleaded guilty? First time DUIs are often given the option of taking a CWF, which is not a guilty plea and doesn't require that the PD revoke your LTC (though they may).

2) Are you positive the charge was DUI?

3) Being found guilty on a DUI in MA means more than just losing your LTC -- you become a federally prohibited person.

4) No, the don't wait to revoke your LTC when you reapply. They typically show up on your doorstep and take your LTC, guns, and ammo.
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Stupid question here:

If there is someone living with you, and that person also has an LTC, do they still take your guns away?
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
Stupid question here:

If there is someone living with you, and that person also has an LTC, do they still take your guns away?
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if you transfer each firearm to the ltc holder they will not take them ... if not they will seize them and charge you with felony possesion ...i still have my letter somewhere stateing to surrender all mine to the local P.D.
 
Doghead said:
I'm already up to 10k in legal bills. 8 months and still no court date. Did you keep your permit and guns?
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My father had taken over all of my stuff when this crap was going on. Took a long time! 2nd offense. In MA at the time, that was a misdemeanor punishable by a conviction of up to 2 years. After my waiting period, 2 years past the last day of probation. I was then eligible for a FID, DQ'd from a LTC. On a MA level anyway.
I then had to pay a visit to the MA, Firearms Licensing Board (FLRB), and make an appeal. Was not a fun day, I represented myself.
I now have my LTC back, restrictions = none.


This happened about 16 years ago. Maybe wording in the laws have changed since then and things are different now. But yeah, I have been there and done that.
 
edin508 said:
My father had taken over all of my stuff when this crap was going on. Took a long time! 2nd offense. In MA at the time, that was a misdemeanor punishable by a conviction of up to 2 years. After my waiting period, 2 years past the last day of probation. I was then eligible for a FID, DQ'd from a LTC. On a MA level anyway.
I then had to pay a visit to the MA, Firearms Licensing Board (FLRB), and make an appeal. Was not a fun day, I represented myself.
I now have my LTC back, restrictions = none.


This happened about 16 years ago. Maybe wording in the laws have changed since then and things are different now. But yeah, I have been there and done that.
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DO you pass a NICS check at an FFL?
 
edin508 said:
My father had taken over all of my stuff when this crap was going on. Took a long time! 2nd offense. In MA at the time, that was a misdemeanor punishable by a conviction of up to 2 years. After my waiting period, 2 years past the last day of probation. I was then eligible for a FID, DQ'd from a LTC. On a MA level anyway.
I then had to pay a visit to the MA, Firearms Licensing Board (FLRB), and make an appeal. Was not a fun day, I represented myself.
I now have my LTC back, restrictions = none.


This happened about 16 years ago. Maybe wording in the laws have changed since then and things are different now. But yeah, I have been there and done that.
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Hopefully I can get this taken care of up north. Thankfully its not 2 1/2 years like here in MA. My MA record is clean and the I live in one of the few towns that is representative of the rest of the country.
 
bostonasphalt2 said:
DO you pass a NICS check at an FFL?
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Yes. They don't make a fed DQ.
It is a DQ in MA. And well, it was a MA thing.
I still to this day, need to show/send in a copy of that letter from the FLRB when I renew or it gets bounced. Like the last time I renewed. The local PD forgot to send it in with my stuff to the state so it came back. But my son got his on time! We did them the same day. It is his first FID, he is 17.
 
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Chase said:
im not sure if it flipps the script at all , yes it was a guilty conviction ,but it happened out of state while resideing in MA
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That explains it. The MA "2 1/2 year first offense DUI" is not typical, and most (perhaps all) out of state first offenses do not trigger the federal DQ.

It is his first FID, he is 17.
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Why did he wait 2 extra years to apply ? :)
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
That explains it. The MA "2 1/2 year first offense DUI" is not typical, and most (perhaps all) out of state first offenses do not trigger the federal DQ.



Why did he wait 2 extra years to apply ? :)
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He is 17 now, just turned 16 when he got it. And since I was paying the 100 bucks, he had to wait till I had it. ;)

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
 
Some people I know have lost thier LTC, others have not. I believe it's up the issuing officer or chief.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
That explains it. The MA "2 1/2 year first offense DUI" is not typical, and most (perhaps all) out of state first offenses do not trigger the federal DQ.



Why did he wait 2 extra years to apply ? :)
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He moved out of state for a short stint to the live free or die neck of the woods where he didn't need it .... basically prob didn't want to pay the hundo every year for nonresident.
 
Gman021 said:
Just learned that a really good family friend ran into this. He was a BIG gun guy but I always thought he kept his guns. We found this on the internet and he doesn't live in MA anymore so I can't ask. I was just told it went to SCOTUS but I think this person was ill informed

http://www.massduitriallawyer.com/melanies-law/out-of-state-violations
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As I read that, it doesn't mean that if you are a MA resident who had an OUI in NH (where the OUI penalty is less than 2 years) that you are now a prohibited person.

Instead, what it means is that if you are then arrested in MA for an OUI, it will be treated as your 2nd OUI. So if you are convicted, you get the higher penalties for a MA 2nd OUI, rather than the lower penalties for the MA 1st OUI.

But, IANAL and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The reason refusing the breath test is so effective is that the jury may not be told the reason for the lack of the breath test, and must judge the case based on available evidence - and, despite the judge's admonition that no inference should be drawn from the lack of a test, will be thinking "gee, I could be prosecuted for DUI and not given a breath test to prove my innocence.".
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Re-reading his for a second time, refusal of field sobriety and breath testing not only prohibits the reason for the refusal for being brought up in court--the issue and refusal is redacted from the record altogether. The fact finder not only never hears that the test was refused, they also never hear that it was even offered.
 
edin508 said:
My son had his FID before his drivers lic. [smile]
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As it should be, unless you plan on sanitizing you car before letting the kid drive it.

The fact finder not only never hears that the test was refused, they also never hear that it was even offered.
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Correct, from the model jury instrucitons at:

http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsan...00-oui-liquor-or-08-percent-blood-alcohol.pdf

Where there has been no breath test, a judge may give the instruction approved in Commonwealth v. Downs, 53 Ma s s . Ap p. Ct. 195, 198, 758 N.E .2 d 11062, 1064 -1065 (2001 ) (“You are not to mention or consider in anyway whatsoever, either for or against eitherside , that there is no evidence of a breathalyzer. Do not consider that in anyway. Do not mention it. And put it completely out of your mind” ).
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But, when the trier of fact is the judge, it is quite possible (s)he will know about the refusal, as (s)he is not only the person who must disregard this fact, but is also the individual responsible for determining that (s)he may not consider such information.
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
But, when the trier of fact is the judge, it is quite possible (s)he will know about the refusal, as (s)he is not only the person who must disregard this fact, but is also the individual responsible for determining that (s)he may not consider such information.
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Even in bench trials it can't be raised, and a good defense attorney will ask for a mistrial if it's brought up.

When judges are the factfinders, we ask them to assume a dual role where they have to apply the rules of evidence in their own heads and dismiss what doesn't apply. It's always been a question in the American system whether it's an appropriate role, but we ask them to do it, and I'd say most of the time they get it right.
 

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