Dual residency question (not already covered via the search i did)

[sreiter]

I couldnt find this scenario in any searches, apologies if its been covered.

I maintain (pay rent/have utilities in my name) 2 separate residences. One here, one out of state. I spend more time out of state, so thats where my D/L is

I called the FRB and they advised me that as long as the city I reside in MA excepts my out of state d/l and utility bills here and grants me a LTC, thats good enough for the state.

Moreover, the person I spoke to told me they have NH full time residents who own businesses here who have resident LTCs.

HOWEVER, GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section31~2
states:

Section 31/2. (a) Any person claiming to be a nonresident for purposes of section 3, shall be deemed to be a resident of the commonwealth during any period in which such person:
...
(12) obtained any benefit, exemption, deduction, entitlement, license, permit or privilege by claiming principal residence in the commonwealth; or

This section says you could be subject to criminal prosecution, or alternatively, violation of this section may be disposed of as a civil motor vehicle infraction.

Now "claiming principal residence" is the operative words.
Does anyone have any experience with this?

It appears the RMV / General Laws (motor vehicles, etc) is at odds with LTC laws.

 

[browncoat]

Do you have your car in MA more than 30 days a year? MA wants you to register your car in MA if it is. They are saying that if you are in MA for more than 30 days, you are a resident, and claiming to not be a resident and not registering your car in MA is a no-no.

In other words, this section has everything to do with vehicle registration and nothing to do with your LTC.

 

[sreiter]

Do you have your car in MA more than 30 days a year? MA wants you to register your car in MA if it is. They are saying that if you are in MA for more than 30 days, you are a resident, and claiming to not be a resident and not registering your car in MA is a no-no.

In other words, this section has everything to do with vehicle registration and nothing to do with your LTC.

But the other state I'm in for more than 30 days wants me to register there too. I cant do both. For tax purposes, its where you live most of the time (1 test for MA is 183 days)..

Its not that this this LTC per se..however, If you have a LTC thats a license/permit. Does that mean you are in violation of the G/L here and subject to criminal charges for not getting a Ma D/L and reg. , even though you're not a full time resident. It doesnt make a lot of sense to register your car for 6 months in one place and 6 in the other or more to the point, change your D/L every 6 months

 

[jasons]

...obtained any benefit, exemption, deduction, entitlement, license, permit or privilege by claiming principal residence in the commonwealth...

You don't need to "claim principal residence" to get a resident LTC. You don't even need to live in MA at all to qualify for a resident LTC. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[sreiter]

to complication things... from the tax code

"Alice owns a house in northern New Hampshire and rents an apartment in Boston, where she works 4 days a week. Alice spends 3 nights and 4 days in Massachusetts each week. The remaining time she spends in her home in New Hampshire. Alice considers her domicile to be New Hampshire and most of her social, political, economic, and familial ties are connected to that state. Alice takes three weeks vacation a year, or 12 days, all of which she spends outside of Massachusetts. She receives 10 paid holidays from her employer each year and spends the holidays outside of Massachusetts. For the year from January 1st to December 31st, Alice has spent 186 days in Massachusetts and 179 in New Hampshire and elsewhere. Even though her domicile may be located in New Hampshire, Alice is subject to tax as a Massachusetts resident for the year since she spent more than 183 days in Massachusetts and maintained a permanent place of abode here. As a resident, Alice must file Form 1 by April 15th of the following year.

Even though the tax bureau considers you a resident, you arent, yet another section in the GL i posted, it says if you pay resident taxes, you have to change D/L and registration.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't need to "claim principal residence" to get a resident LTC. You don't even need to live in MA at all to qualify for a resident LTC. I wouldn't worry about it.

thanks

 

[browncoat]

But the other state I'm in for more than 30 days wants me to register there too. I cant do both. For tax purposes, its where you live most of the time (1 test for MA is 183 days)..

Its not that this this LTC per se..however, If you have a LTC thats a license/permit. Does that mean you are in violation of the G/L here and subject to criminal charges for not getting a Ma D/L and reg. , even though you're not a full time resident. It doesnt make a lot of sense to register your car for 6 months in one place and 6 in the other or more to the point, change your D/L every 6 months

I guess what I was saying is - the LTC doesn't matter in this situation. If you get busted for not registering your car in MA, that's going to be a separate issue from whether or not you have an LTC.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Now "claiming principal residence" is the operative words.

You could always ask the state auditor to explain the difference between "Principal Residence" and "Primary Residence"

 

[sreiter]

I guess what I was saying is - the LTC doesn't matter in this situation. If you get busted for not registering your car in MA, that's going to be a separate issue from whether or not you have an LTC.

Wondering if having a LTC will show up if my D/L gets run (i'd have to use the out of state one when i apply) ... less to worry about if it didnt.. thats all.

- - - Updated - - -

You could always ask the state auditor to explain the difference between "Principal Residence" and "Primary Residence"

have their number ?

 

[s8200]

How would this ever work? The chief will ask for a MA driver's license, and if one isn't available, won't he say "Hey, you can't get a MA gun permit, you're not a resident."?

 

[sreiter]

How would this ever work? The chief will ask for a MA driver's license, and if one isn't available, won't he say "Hey, you can't get a MA gun permit, you're not a resident."?

Not the case. there are a number of towns where they only ask for a lease and/or utility bill... Again, the person who answered the phone at the firearms record bureau told me people who only own businesses have been given resident LTCs...

 

[Len-2A Training]

How would this ever work? The chief will ask for a MA driver's license, and if one isn't available, won't he say "Hey, you can't get a MA gun permit, you're not a resident."?

Neither my Wife or I have ever been asked to see our DL for a permit or renewal. I'm not going to say that some towns don't because they can ask for whatever they want even if the law doesn't require it (to wit: doctor's letters, etc.), but we can't make broad-brush statements here. What if someone doesn't drive? Does that void their legal ability to get a LTC?

BTW, we were never asked for any proof of residency. But the PD always had access to the town clerk's database (based on sending back the town census form annually) to verify residence.

 

[s8200]

I mean, who the hell do you know who to trust? I had a non-res ltc a few years ago, and when I applied for a res ltc, I called Chelsea to ask them if I should check 'renewal' or 'new applicant... they said new applicant. When I went for the interview with the chief, he said 'no this is a renewal'. So then in my head I'm thinking 'Jesus Christ these morons have no idea what the hell they're doing." When you ask 'the authority' a question, what good are they if the answers are all mixed up?

 

[sreiter]

Everything I was told was if its been expired for more than a year, its a new application.

As far your the re/bob res... what constitutes proof. Explain your situation. the state follows towns leads, the state only double checks the towns work ie runs another bg check, etc, If a town expects you're a resident in their town for LTC purposes, the state doesnt challenge that

 

[Len-2A Training]

Doesn't matter how long ago your LTC expired, if after 1998 (1996 IIRC wrt training however), it is a renewal. It's a new NR app, but meeting all the extra legal requirements (training, proof of citizenship or green card).

The rest doesn't matter as every renewal process is the same as the first application anyway.

True, if town accepts you as a MA resident, state is OK with it wrt LTC. Info isn't shared with DOR (who wants taxes from everyone who even breathes in MA) or RMV (wrt license/reg/insurance). Every empire in MA owns their own database . . . part of why it cost so much to run this state (not that I'd like a single consolidated database, just explaining the facts here)!!

 

[dcmdon]

SREIter,

There are many considerations to consider when selecting a domicile from among two residences.

Gun laws, taxes, etc.

However none of this changes the fact that you are a bona fide resident of more than one state. As such you can lawfully get a resident carry permit/LTC in both states. Now MA may be more of a stickler so it might be easier for your domicile to be in MA.

I am the resident of two states. MA and CT. I live and work in MA. I have a residence where I spend about 60 days a year in CT. I have clothes, a tooth brush, a bank account and a car registered in CT. I AM a resident of CT when i am there.

I am domiciled in MA. As such I have my DL here and vote here.

The ATF is 100% fine with you having two residences. I provided many citations on a previous thread, so rather than write it out again, I'll link to the previous thread.

The best advice I can give to you is to not over think it.

Don

Go here:

https://www.northeastshooters.com/v...y-question-MA-residen/page3?highlight=weekend

Look at my post numbers 25,26,28,30 33, 40
I cite specific ATF guidance with respect to having a residence in multiple states.

- - - Updated - - -

To the OP - what is the other state?

 

[dcmdon]

Neither my Wife or I have ever been asked to see our DL for a permit or renewal.

Arlington asked to see my wife's MA DL before they would issue a LTC.

They took the hud statement from our home purchase for me, right after we moved here.

My wife, we had lived here for a year and she still had a CT DL. So i think they used it as leverage to get her to get a MA DL.
Which she did, and they issued her a LTC A no restrictions within 30 days.

With respect to car registration. Someone said that each state wants you to register in their state.

That is not true. The generally accepted standard is that whatever town the car spends the most time in is where it should be registered.

I have two cars registered in MA and one in CT.

Don

 

[Len-2A Training]

With respect to car registration. Someone said that each state wants you to register in their state.

That is not true. The generally accepted standard is that whatever town the car spends the most time in is where it should be registered.

I have two cars registered in MA and one in CT.

Don

MA doesn't care where you spend the most time, they want the car registered in MA if it spends >30 total days/year here (as in overnight, not if you just work in MA), period! It's in the MGLs (probably C.89 or 90).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Neither my Wife or I have ever been asked to see our DL for a permit or renewal.

Depends on the town. It always went that way with me in the other town. When I took my kid in for her FID at age 15, she was asked "name, date of birth and ss #" (the later prompting a phone call from the kid that started "Mom, I'm at the police station....").

My current town is very formal about the ID and proof of residency, even if they know you. DL and a bill sent to your current address. When I went in to have them sign proof of residency for my RI permit, the local PD sent a detective to check the voter registration roles.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Depends on the town. It always went that way with me in the other town. When I took my kid in for her FID at age 15, she was asked "name, date of birth and ss #" (the later prompting a phone call from the kid that started "Mom, I'm at the police station....").

My current town is very formal about the ID and proof of residency, even if they know you. DL and a bill sent to your current address. When I went in to have them sign proof of residency for my RI permit, the local PD sent a detective to check the voter registration roles.

I have a copy of the town census/voter registration list of everyone >=18 yrs old on my desk. PD has same plus computer access. No need to send anyone anywhere to check status.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I have a copy of the town census/voter registration list of everyone >=18 yrs old on my desk. PD has same plus computer access. No need to send anyone anywhere to check status.

I had just moved to town, so I doubt the printed a special edition to announce my arrival.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I had just moved to town, so I doubt the printed a special edition to announce my arrival.

You underestimate your importance.

 

[drgrant]

I couldnt find this scenario in any searches, apologies if its been covered.

I maintain (pay rent/have utilities in my name) 2 separate residences. One here, one out of state. I spend more time out of state, so thats where my D/L is

I called the FRB and they advised me that as long as the city I reside in MA excepts my out of state d/l and utility bills here and grants me a LTC, thats good enough for the state.

Moreover, the person I spoke to told me they have NH full time residents who own businesses here who have resident LTCs.

HOWEVER, GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section31~2
states:

Section 31/2. (a) Any person claiming to be a nonresident for purposes of section 3, shall be deemed to be a resident of the commonwealth during any period in which such person:
...
(12) obtained any benefit, exemption, deduction, entitlement, license, permit or privilege by claiming principal residence in the commonwealth; or

This section says you could be subject to criminal prosecution, or alternatively, violation of this section may be disposed of as a civil motor vehicle infraction.

Now "claiming principal residence" is the operative words.
Does anyone have any experience with this?

It appears the RMV / General Laws (motor vehicles, etc) is at odds with LTC laws.

No, nothing is at odds with anything. Residency is nebulous. So pick something and run with it. You're overthinking the whole situation.

-Mike

 

[Another_David]

....It appears the RMV / General Laws (motor vehicles, etc) is at odds with LTC laws.

residency varies greatly depending on how it is applied: ltc, driver's license, voting, jury duty, taxes, car registration, etc.

you can't necessarily apply how it's used in one section of the mgl to another