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Dragunov/PSL

JayD

JayD

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Hello all. I am reaching out to the Dragunov/PSL owners out there. I am thinking of purchasing one to supplement my moisin and love for all things 7.62x54R. I currently have about $600 saved. Is this enough? Any opinions on what to look for? I appreciate any help
 
Not for a Dragunov. It might be enough for the PSL, if you can find a deal.

The two are very different rifles though, the PSL is built on a stamped receiver, with a PKM action. It's not nearly as accurate as the SVD (Dragunov).
 
Waste of money in my opinion. PSL's quality is poor at best. Their triggers look like they were ground by a blind drunk, rough, gritty and long. Their exterior surface finishes come pre dinged and incomplete from the factory. Their reliability is spotty at best. I had one that wouldn't even feed a single round right out of the box. Tried 8 different mags and half a dozen different ammo brands/types......sent it back for a refund. That was unquestionably the worst rifle I've ever layed my hands on in my life.

Buy a good AK, or a Mauser, you'll be miles ahead of the game.
 
The psl is a real hit or miss. 2moa is normal with wolf, you can get MUCH better groups with high quality stuff. People don't think they are accurate, I beg to differ. They are not an tigr, but you can accuratize them and make them just as good.

http://www.rifledynamics.com/services/gsr.php

I'm sending a psl out to him. Apparently (according to about 100 reviews I've read), people who send the psl to him send out a good gun, and get back an absolute BEAST. For $450, apparently is turns the psl from fun bench shooter, into something you can bet your life on. Everything I've read has said they can now shoot MOA on wolf, 2moa on surplus, and sub-moa with match. The short barrel takes away the whip and helps accuracy, along with manuverability. He REALLY works the trigger. Worth a look. I love the psl, something tells me I'm going to love it a lot more real soon.


PSL Upgrade Package: $450.00

Shorten barrel to 19"
Cut 11 degree target crown
Re-thread barrel
Uncant sights/gas block
Mod rear sight
Correct breach face
Correct bolt face
True/fit bolt carrier/locking lugs
Re-headspace and pin barrel to proper spec

Fit and adjust RSA trigger group

Fit/smooth safety

Fit Mag catch

Deburr, trigger guard, charging handle, mag catch anything else needed

Install bi-pod swivel

Sandblast and parkerize all metal parts

25yrd zero on Iron sights
Extras

Norrells Moly Resin over park: $100.00
Red Star Arms trigger group: $85.00
Aftermarket wood and Poly stocks available starting at $180.00
 
Interesting. I already have a Norinco NHM-91 that I love. Maybe I will put this one off and get a nice 22 pistol that I can shoot forever instead.
 
The psl really is an awesome gun. Reliable as all hell, and it can get the job done it was designed for, DMR out to 600 (800 - 1000 if it's worked on a bit) minute of man. A worked one can do reliable MOA.

Everyone thinks it's expensive for what it is, but in retrospect it's really not. It's a budget DMR with optics already included. Throw a bit of $$ into it after the initial purchase, and it will do circles around an FAL DMR, plus the ammo is dirt cheap. Wolf is cheap for it, the corrosive stuff is pennies, and you can get near match grade 7N1 cheaper than near match .308. Overall, it's a great value, balls to the wall reliable, DMR that in the long run will save you tons of $$. Sure you can buy a rem 700 for the same price, but then add optics, mods, stock, and the picky ammo it uses....and sub-moa starts to become a real annoyance on your bank account.


Only reason the SVD is so expensive is rarity. The psl can be just as accurate as the svd for a few extra bucks, just as reliable, etc etc.

I say go for it man
 
The PSL can be hit or miss. I bought 2 from TGI years ago, in the days they were 369.00 w/ optics. Gave one to my oldest son. They are both very accurate and have been 100% reliable. One of the reasons for its' accuracy, about 2 MOA at 100 yards is the light ball ammo. Military 7.62x54r light ball has an aluminum or other light metal tip in front of the lead core. It takes the bullet about 100 yards to settle down. Handload w/ .311 150gr Hornady SP and 4064, everything changes. A 5 shot group will be less than an inch.
 
Finalygotabeltfed said:
Waste of money in my opinion. PSL's quality is poor at best. Their triggers look like they were ground by a blind drunk, rough, gritty and long. Their exterior surface finishes come pre dinged and incomplete from the factory. Their reliability is spotty at best. I had one that wouldn't even feed a single round right out of the box. Tried 8 different mags and half a dozen different ammo brands/types......sent it back for a refund. That was unquestionably the worst rifle I've ever layed my hands on in my life.

Buy a good AK, or a Mauser, you'll be miles ahead of the game.
Click to expand...

The feeding problem you had is interesting. Usually the feeding problems are due to the magazine spring being installed backwards. But if you used 8 different mags, it's very hard to believe that all of them would have had that problem. I'm guessing that you got a wonky build- probably had too thick of a safety stop, or the mag dimples were too low making the magazines sit too low in the receiver.

MichaelJR said:
The psl is a real hit or miss. 2moa is normal with wolf, you can get MUCH better groups with high quality stuff. People don't think they are accurate, I beg to differ. They are not an tigr, but you can accuratize them and make them just as good.

http://www.rifledynamics.com/services/gsr.php

I'm sending a psl out to him. Apparently (according to about 100 reviews I've read), people who send the psl to him send out a good gun, and get back an absolute BEAST. For $450, apparently is turns the psl from fun bench shooter, into something you can bet your life on. Everything I've read has said they can now shoot MOA on wolf, 2moa on surplus, and sub-moa with match. The short barrel takes away the whip and helps accuracy, along with manuverability. He REALLY works the trigger. Worth a look. I love the psl, something tells me I'm going to love it a lot more real soon.
Click to expand...

2MOA with wolf? BULLSHIT. Wolf 7.62x54r is the shittiest ammo I've ever used in either my mosin nagants or my PSL. Underpowered. Inaccurate. And dirty as hell. I'd rather shoot heavy ball surplus and blow out my barrel like a hooker than buy that expensive bullshit ammo.

Shortening the barrel has proven to improve the PSL platform. It also reduces muzzle velocity. Paying $450 for a sand blasting/parking and a RSA trigger install seems about right. But much of that stuff that they are listing is hilarious- why do you need a mag catch adjustment, or a headspacing on a Cugir built factory rifle? They're listing things there that is redundant: if your rifle feeds and functions, they aren't touching anything. Unless your rifle blew up in your face when you first fired it, you aren't getting all of these services when you send it to them.

The bolt-to-chamber stuff might be a good thing, but if you aren't seeing any gas bleeding in your receiver after a range trip, they won't be doing much here, anyways. I am curious as to how they do this- with a hand file or with a mill. I'm guessing... hand file. Or more than likely nothing at all.

If you have a real turd of a PSL, perhaps an old Century arms rifle, or a TGI built on a bad day, the $450 seems like a decent deal. But if you have a romanian built PSL, all you're getting is a shortened barrel with a RSA trigger along with refinish work. Not saying its a bad deal, because it's actually pretty good, but just keep your head out of the clouds when it comes to websites listing all kinds of things that don't do anything like turning a $500 gun into a "sniper rifle."

/redacted because I'm being an ass this morning.
 
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flintoid said:
The feeding problem you had is interesting. Usually the feeding problems are due to the magazine spring being installed backwards. But if you used 8 different mags, it's very hard to believe that all of them would have had that problem. I'm guessing that you got a wonky build- probably had too thick of a safety stop, or the mag dimples were too low making the magazines sit too low in the receiver.



2MOA with wolf? BULLSHIT. Wolf 7.62x54r is the shittiest ammo I've ever used in either my mosin nagants or my PSL. Underpowered. Inaccurate. And dirty as hell. I'd rather shoot heavy ball surplus and blow out my barrel like a hooker than buy that expensive bullshit ammo.

Shortening the barrel has proven to improve the PSL platform. It also reduces muzzle velocity. Paying $450 for a sand blasting/parking and a RSA trigger install seems about right. But much of that stuff that they are listing is hilarious- why do you need a mag catch adjustment, or a headspacing on a Cugir built factory rifle? They're listing things there that is redundant: if your rifle feeds and functions, they aren't touching anything. Unless your rifle blew up in your face when you first fired it, you aren't getting all of these services when you send it to them.

The bolt-to-chamber stuff might be a good thing, but if you aren't seeing any gas bleeding in your receiver after a range trip, they won't be doing much here, anyways. I am curious as to how they do this- with a hand file or with a mill. I'm guessing... hand file. Or more than likely nothing at all.

If you have a real turd of a PSL, perhaps an old Century arms rifle, or a TGI built on a bad day, the $450 seems like a decent deal. But if you have a romanian built PSL, all you're getting is a shortened barrel with a RSA trigger along with refinish work. Not saying its a bad deal, because it's actually pretty good, but just keep your head out of the clouds when it comes to websites listing all kinds of things that don't do anything like turning a $500 gun into a "sniper rifle."

/redacted because I'm being an ass this morning.
Click to expand...

2moa on wolf man, I kid you not. I'm sticking to it. My romanian factory built is a beast. I'm hoping once it goes out to him in las vegas, and I can get my hands on a-lot of 71N 152gr, that I'll be 1 or under. I've heard quite a few stories of guys shooting sub moa with psl's that have come out of rifle dynamics....it's something I've read at least a dozen times, and a dozen is a good bet for me. I'm just not excited about the wait, apparently the guy is backed up with work 24/7, he does AMAZING stuff with ak's of all sorts so he's got his hands full.

There's actually a bunch of good deals on 71N right now, I've thrown a few down range with mine, stuff is real accurate, it's like a whole different rifle. Try it out man, you might be surprised.

But you're right, psl's are real hit or miss. You can get one like mine with a decent trigger and a natural inclination to shoot straight, or you can get the ones that you're lucky if you can pull 6" groups at 100m. I REALLY lucked out with mine. If it's this accurate now, I'm pumped to see what he can do with it. 450 is a steal considering the reviews. He warrantees everything he does too.

I know it will never be a sniper rifle, it's a DMR, always will be, but it's a wicked cool DMR hahahaha.

If I wanted a 300 win mag remmy 700 i'd do it, but I like death metal, and death metal is fast, and I don't like 1/4" sub moa bench shooting for bragging rights.

I'd really like to take this bad-larry up north for a deer hunt once it comes back from vegas.

I'll post pictures whenever it comes back (once I send it out hahaha), which judging by reviews....won't be till at least after new years if I sent it to him now.
 
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well, I hope it turns out well. Be sure to report about what you think about it after you get it back.

I still stand behind my wolf ammo statement. Maybe my PSL along with my mosin nagants just barf them out, or it's possible they made a string of bad ammo in the countryside of russia.

I can be selective about shot strings with my PSL and claim that it'll do sub-2 or 3 MOA. Especially with bulgarian surplus. But I know better than that. So I'm basing my findings on the fact that, sure, my PSL will shoot pretty tight strings. Hell, even almost consistent enough to fool me for an entire range session. But when a round flies left or right, or is hot, or is severely underpowered, it speaks for the rest of the ammo that may have been nuts on.

Wolf gives me underpowered shots every now and then. Russian gives me some "hot" rounds. bulgarian, as far as I'm concerned, is the most consistent. But even then, it's consistency isn't exactly 100%, all the time, every time.
 
flintoid said:
well, I hope it turns out well. Be sure to report about what you think about it after you get it back.

I still stand behind my wolf ammo statement. Maybe my PSL along with my mosin nagants just barf them out, or it's possible they made a string of bad ammo in the countryside of russia.

I can be selective about shot strings with my PSL and claim that it'll do sub-2 or 3 MOA. Especially with bulgarian surplus. But I know better than that. So I'm basing my findings on the fact that, sure, my PSL will shoot pretty tight strings. Hell, even almost consistent enough to fool me for an entire range session. But when a round flies left or right, or is hot, or is severely underpowered, it speaks for the rest of the ammo that may have been nuts on.

Wolf gives me underpowered shots every now and then. Russian gives me some "hot" rounds. bulgarian, as far as I'm concerned, is the most consistent. But even then, it's consistency isn't exactly 100%, all the time, every time.
Click to expand...

The factories over there have MUCH lower control standards than here. You're right on the bulgarian, most people I've spoken to or read online agree as well....for surplus ammo, the psl loves bulgarian the most (next to 7N1, but that doesn't count cause it's not easy to find, ever). Mine shoots bulgarian nice.

Consistancy will never be a quality of commie bloc rifles shot with commie bloc ammo. I'm sure if we only shot 7N1 or handloads out of it, it would shoot mint 10/10 all day, but we shoot surplus, and when we get lucky and find the good stuff....we usually save it for the end of the world hahaha. Have you tried any of the american
X54r rounds?
 
flintoid said:
The feeding problem you had is interesting. Usually the feeding problems are due to the magazine spring being installed backwards. But if you used 8 different mags, it's very hard to believe that all of them would have had that problem. I'm guessing that you got a wonky build- probably had too thick of a safety stop, or the mag dimples were too low making the magazines sit too low in the receiver.


It would strip off the top round but wouldn't chamber all the way and the bolt would hang open a half inch. A round would drop into the chamber unimpeded so the chamber was to spec. I fired one round with it that I had dropped into the chamber and closed the bolt on, when it fired, the same problem persisted so I dropped it back in the case and sent it on its way. I was in no mood to have to rework a shitty looking, factory built, $700 rifle under any circumstances.

I was more than glad to return it, the workmanship was the worst I'd ever seen in every aspect....even for an AK. I could build a better looking and functioning rifle blindfolded.
Click to expand...
 
MichaelJR said:
Have you tried any of the american
X54r rounds?
Click to expand...

I have 7 boxes left and I only shoot it on rare occasions. Plain white box, says 7,62x54R ball on it with a lot# stamp of 02 JMS 02. I bought this ammo about 3 years ago and from what I heard it was made by the US military to train US soldiers on foreign weapons. A batch came out for sale years ago and that was it.

The only thing that shoots better out of my TGI Romak is PRVI blue/white box 150 grain ammo but thats almost just as hard to find these days.

And if someone has a link to a source for 7N1 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, PM me!
 
I too am finding 2moa to be hard to believe. The PSL is a 7.62x54 AK. Nothing about these guns were made for accuracy. They were built as a high volume reliable gun. Recrowning and truing the bolt face really does not do a lot to increase lock up consistancy or a very loose chamber.

Also one of the main failings of all of these guns, including the real drags was that there has never been a supply of match grade ammo. By all accounts, a real drag shooting designated sniper ammo is/ was at best a <2moa shooter.
 
seanc said:
I too am finding 2moa to be hard to believe. The PSL is a 7.62x54 AK. Nothing about these guns were made for accuracy. They were built as a high volume reliable gun. Recrowning and truing the bolt face really does not do a lot to increase lock up consistancy or a very loose chamber.

Also one of the main failings of all of these guns, including the real drags was that there has never been a supply of match grade ammo. By all accounts, a real drag shooting designated sniper ammo is/ was at best a <2moa shooter.
Click to expand...


I'm pumped for when mine comes back with the shorter barrel.

It shoots great as is. When it comes back I'm gonna have to let you guys know, and I'll come down to where you shoot to give it a whirl. You're going to be surprised.

I wouldn't even call a psl a drag clone. They aren't even really related aside from barrel length and cartridge. Even the furniture is different.

However, a psl can be a pretty damn accurate gun with the proper work done. They are hit or miss. Mine was accurate out the gate. Maybe with less barrel whip, it will be better than it already is.
 
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When you get it back, be sure to take some gun porn pictures of her. And if you're confident in your claims of it's consistency, load up a magazine, sit down at your 100 yard range, get situated for the whole mag, and put it in paper. Snap a photo and let us see the cluster it can make.

I've shot several PSLs. Own one. And have seen other people shoot them. </= 2 MOA is still mythical pudding that I've never tasted, or seen good proof of it's existence. If you can prove it to be true, I'd be more than happy about it.

Like I have said, my PSL will string 3 shots in a row within 3 inches. But then what? It'll barf a round 5 inches away. Is that a 2 or 3 MOA rifle? No, it is not. This is as much about statistics as it is putting a hole on a sheet of paper.

I love myself some commie guns. In order to love without heartbreak, though, you need to have a realistic perception of what you are in love with. Otherwise, once the buzz of your initial romance wears off, you'll wake up one morning, sober as hell, next to an ugly Communist Pig that had been dressed in a Tacticool Black dress, wearing quite lovely librarian "f*ck me" 20x optics, while strutting around in her Harris Engineering heels.

You rub your eyes with the taste of old cigarettes and booze on your breathe. Uh oh. You'd been drinking last night. Hard. The smell of shellac is overpowering your senses. You start to vomit in your own mouth. Then you roll over and that urge to be sick has now been shocked out of your system: because there she is, the woman you had fallen for at the bar believing all of her stories of how she could please you, because let's face it- you'd never gone home with a woman like this before.

Her once long, shapely, smooth, and firm calves that you once thought stood well on this earth are now stumpy, short, and hairy. She may have been wearing a very sexy dress, much like those svelt women of classy dance clubs downtown, but you now see through it all... and know she should have been wearing the potato bags that only she can fit in to. Expensive black stilletos for a communist pig? Her feet should be bare for the dirt floors that she hopelessly sweeps.

And then you cry because your dream is over. She's a communist. An ugly, fat, smelly communist. That iodine you smell only makes your tears sting. But she's reliable. And she's cheap. So you can always comfort your now throbbing heartache with cheap BJs from her in a back ally that will always get your rocks off. Your hands are already black from the crappy food that you fed her last night, so what's the hurt in a little self indulgence? It just won't do it with that extra flick of the tongue. Or the precision and heightened senses that the american blonde can do while she's asleep.

You either come to grips of what you're sleeping with and tell your friends on the internet, or you can keep lying to yourself and everyone that's around you. I know where you've been, kid. Fooling me isn't going to happen, but I don't very much care what you claim or don't claim.

Because I've been there.

And I like it.
 
and just to clarify, 2 MOA roughly translates to just over 2 inches at 100 yards. Slightly smaller than your typically sized post it note.

IMAG0512.jpg


If you can string even 5 shots into that size, in a row, I'll be extremely pleased to see it.
 
flintoid said:
and just to clarify, 2 MOA roughly translates to just over 2 inches at 100 yards. Slightly smaller than your typically sized post it note.

IMAG0512.jpg


If you can string even 5 shots into that size, in a row, I'll be extremely pleased to see it.
Click to expand...

When my eastern-european wonder woman comes back from her surgery, not only will I post pictures....but I will drive to your club of choice with a fair amount of 71N rounds, and you will have a chance to demonstrate it to yourself. In-fact....you will be the second person to shoot the beast. I promise. She does not dissapoint, and she will be even better after her surgery.

We will prove the board wrong. A 2moa psl is real. She exists. She's smokin hot too. You'll see.

Since I'm obligated to show an after picture....here's a preview of one that has already been worked by the guys at R.D.
01.jpg



Oh I know....she's gonna be a beauty.
 
Keep us updated [grin] I'm anxious to see how she turns out. And who knows, maybe my PSL needs more credit than it's due... I've only shot wolf and various surplus through her.

I don't expect you to drive all the way to my range in Braintree, MA (I think you might live in NH or Maine?) but if there's a club in between us or a shoot that we can both attend, sign me up.

I can bring out some of my prized "commie trash" [wink] I'm currently putting together a bulgarian ak74 that I'm hoping will be my marksman rifle of the AKM flavor. Maybe organize a communist shoot somewhere?
 
flintoid said:
Keep us updated [grin] I'm anxious to see how she turns out. And who knows, maybe my PSL needs more credit than it's due... I've only shot wolf and various surplus through her.

I don't expect you to drive all the way to my range in Braintree, MA (I think you might live in NH or Maine?) but if there's a club in between us or a shoot that we can both attend, sign me up.

I can bring out some of my prized "commie trash" [wink] I'm currently putting together a bulgarian ak74 that I'm hoping will be my marksman rifle of the AKM flavor. Maybe organize a communist shoot somewhere?
Click to expand...

Nope I'm in ma. I'll go to you. Where did you buy the parts kit? I want a 74, major
 
are these bad boys MA compliant? svd and psl ? hearing the price range, now im intersted.... always assumed they were more.....
 

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