Dillon press question

[NFD9]

I recent called Dillon to get some info on their XL650 and I asked about using RCBS and Hornady dies. The sales person said that Dillon dies have a wider bell on the mouth of the die than other manufacturers, so they don't recommend using non- Dillon dies with their progressive loader.
Does this sound like a crock of sh*t?
What do you use for dies in your Dillon?
Is a 650 worth the extra $ or am I better off with the 550?
TIA
Gary

 

[PatMcD]

I use RCBS dies in my 550. The 650 might be worth it if you are a handgun shooter that fires a lot.

 

[M1911]

Gary:

Sorry, I can't answer about the difference in dies. I do use Dillon dies in my 550.

If you mostly load a single caliber, then you might want a 650. It is faster, but from what I understand more difficult to set up and change calibers. Brian Enos discusses this in his FAQ: http://brianenos.com/pages/dillonfaqs.html#550650

 

[GTOShootr]

I use three different brands of dies in my Dillon toolheads and they work fine. Dillon dies have nice features. I can't knock them for recommending their own product.

The 650 does everything the 550 does but a bit faster, you won't out grow it. Whatever machine you get, you'll get to know very well and none of the caliber changeovers are rocket science or take enough time to be considered a factor. You'll be doing them in a matter of minutes in a short time after working with the machine.

 

[Cross-X]

I only use Dillon. Never had a reason to change, but I'm sure standard dies from other manufacturers would work just fine.

 

[JimB]

I'm using Lee dies in my 650, i havn't noticed any issues.

The dillon are nice in that they come apart for cleaning without
resetting. But i already had carbide dies i didn't want to throw out.

JimB

 

[houdini]

I only use dillon dies with my 550.

 

[Scrivener]

The sales person said that Dillon dies have a wider bell on the mouth of the die than other manufacturers, so they don't recommend using non- Dillon dies with their progressive loader.
Does this sound like a crock of sh*t?

Because progressive machines may not always bring the case DIRECTLY under the die the way a single-stage press does, Dillon does, indeed, flare the mouth of its dies more. This gives you some margin of error and facilitates production. At a price.

Because the sizing is chamfered (NOT "belled") more, it does NOT size as far down on the brass. However, this deficiency can be cured by a Lee FCD, which is useful for other reasons.

I have only 1 set of Dillon pistol dies and that is because they came with that press. I have RCBS for my original .45 die set and also my .40; I've got some Lee and Lyman also. They all fit in a 550 and work in a 550; they'll work in any Dillon EXCEPT the Square Deal.

As you are not even considering the Square Deal, it is not an issue. Get the best press for your needs and then get the die set you prefer.

 

[rscalzo]

Not bs. For bottleneck rifle it isn't that big of a deal. For 40 S&W and 45ACP, I sometimes have to guide the case into the dies, mainly the sizing die. The other stations are no problem.

 

[Gammon]

The Dillon people are right, sort of. Dies for progressive presses need a larger flare to allow for slight misalignments that are common with these machines. Dillon dies are made to deal with this problem, but other manufacturers also make similar dies. When buying dies made by manufacturers other than Dillon you must make sure that they have the necessary flare to function in a progressive press.

 

[Adam_MA]

Sorry but this seems like a crock of s*it to me. If a progressive press doesn't have the mechanical capability to positively lock up in the correct position to have the case enter the die without issue, then it's either setup wrong, or a piece of sh*t!

 

[rscalzo]

One of the causes for that condition is a loose sheel holder plate. Try tightening the plate somewhat and try again. In addition, pull out the detent ball and spring and clean them and the hole they go in to in the ram. they can get clogged with dirt and other debris causing the detent ball not to move freely.

 

[GTOShootr]

All of my resizing dies are Undersized and I don't have to guide the brass in. You do have to make sure the case is getting pushed into the shell plate correctly. On the 650, that is an adjustment. If you set it to feed in your smallest case, then it will work for eveything larger without more adjustment.

The idea that there are misalignments is not accurate. There is a little bit of play between the toolheads and the press body. You can just feel it by rocking the took head. That allows the dies to self center or float on the ammo. It is a concept you can see a lot if you read up on precision reloading.

This guy actually makes a kit to make the dies float even more. http://www.whiddengunworks.net/toolhead.html
He's also the National Long Range Rifle Champ loading on a 650.

 

[GTOShootr]

One of the causes for that condition is a loose sheel holder plate. Try tightening the plate somewhat and try again. In addition, pull out the detent ball and spring and clean them and the hole they go in to in the ram. they can get clogged with dirt and other debris causing the detent ball not to move freely.

Also, if the shell plate isn't tight enough, the detent ball will push up on one side of the shell plate, causing the brass to sit at an angle. Some people clip a coil off the detent ball spring.

 

[scottb]

+1 on a Dillon 650 and GTOShootr.

 

[rscalzo]

The loose shell plate was found on Brian Enos site. I tried it and it cured 99 percent of my misaligned case entries in the 40 and 45 calibers.

The dirt in the detent ball hole could cause what you are referring to earlier. I tighten the Shell plate bolt down to a stop by hand, then back off about a 1.4 turn. That works for my 550.

 

[Gammon]

Sorry but this seems like a crock of s*it to me. If a progressive press doesn't have the mechanical capability to positively lock up in the correct position to have the case enter the die without issue, then it's either setup wrong, or a piece of sh*t!

No crock. Progressive presses have a little more play then a single stage or turret press. This play can lead to problems when using dies with very little flare.

I just checked out some Dillon accessories available from Uniquetech. They offer a roller bearing for the 550 shell plate that allows you to tighten it down to avoid play but still have easy rotation. Sounds like a good idea, but not cheap at $49.95. They also offer a micometer adjuster for the Dillon powder measure that looks promising.

 

[WILDCATT]

tools

thats what I like about press,you have to buy assesorys to get them to work right.I'll stick to my Lee turrets had them for years and never had a problem,course I dont beat them to death either.

 

[Gammon]

thats what I like about press,you have to buy assesorys to get them to work right.I'll stick to my Lee turrets had them for years and never had a problem,course I dont beat them to death either.

I just mentioned these accessories in passing. I don't feel any need for them (with the exception of the micrometer powder bar to ease adjustment) in my Dillon machines; they work just fine and have done so for almost 30 years.

 

[jkelly]

…they work just fine and have done so for almost 30 years.---Gammon

Sure, almost 30 years, but what are the long term implications?


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Scrivener]

The powder measure seems to be the uniform complaint about Dillon. However, I suspect the Hornady unit would screw right in as each uses the universal die thread.

As for "long term implications," note that Dillon will rebuild your 550 0r 650 for the cost of freight. I sent my first 550 (used when I bought it about 8 years ago) back last year. Six weeks and $60 later, it came back, rebuilt and with the primer bar upgrade.

 

[Wheelgunr]

Dillon press

I have a Square Deal B that I've been using for about 6 years with not one mechanical problem. Anything that ever went wrong has been attributed to "User error". I use the Dillon dies exclusively. I have replacment tool heads, dies, and powder measures for .38 spl, 9mm and .45ACP. The powder is always within 1-2 grains of the settings for my recipies, and mostly right on (I check it every 20 rounds or so). Replacing a tool head takes about 5 minutes (4 screws and a shell plate). When I needed 2 different recipies for .45 (revolver and 1911) to make power factor for IDPA, I just got another powder bar. I love this machine. I can crank out a lot of bullets of a single caliber.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I have a Square Deal B that I've been using for about 6 years with not one mechanical problem. I love this machine. I can crank out a lot of bullets of a single caliber.

+1 the SDB seems to get no respect. I only load 9mm in pistol, so it's great for me. I can crank out lots of rounds in an afternoon and it's super easy to use.