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Dillon 650 vs 750

Michael J. Spangler said:
If I could turn off the auto index on one I would drop the $ right now.
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You can do this in about 1 minute by taking off the index cam, bolted to the side of the press with 2 allen screws.

The hassle is that when you put it back on, it probably takes 3-5 min because you have to adjust its position so it indexes to just the right spot.

Ultimately, this is what drove me to buy a 550 in addition to my 650. The 650 is for churning out ammo. The 550 can make ammo at a good clip, but is also good for load development.

Also, caliber change overs are much faster and cheaper on a 550. Especially if htey use the same sized primer.
Some people will say they can change over a 650 in 10 minutes. But if you are the kind of person who will end up leaving one caliber set up for a while, there is always a re-learning curve when changing over.
 
dcmdon said:
You can do this in about 1 minute by taking off the index cam, bolted to the side of the press with 2 allen screws.

The hassle is that when you put it back on, it probably takes 3-5 min because you have to adjust its position so it indexes to just the right spot.

Ultimately, this is what drove me to buy a 550 in addition to my 650. The 650 is for churning out ammo. The 550 can make ammo at a good clip, but is also good for load development.

Also, caliber change overs are much faster and cheaper on a 550. Especially if htey use the same sized primer.
Some people will say they can change over a 650 in 10 minutes. But if you are the kind of person who will end up leaving one caliber set up for a while, there is always a re-learning curve when changing over.
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Good to know. I was unaware.
Yeah I have two 550s so I don’t have to change primer systems. That’s the slowest part but still pretty damn fast.
The 650 doesn’t have an indexing star like the 550 right? Do you just rotate the shell plate by grabbing the cartridge and rotating?
 
Michael J. Spangler said:
Good to know. I was unaware.
Yeah I have two 550s so I don’t have to change primer systems. That’s the slowest part but still pretty damn fast.
The 650 doesn’t have an indexing star like the 550 right? Do you just rotate the shell plate by grabbing the cartridge and rotating?
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If you disable the auto index, you would just grab the base of a couple of cases on the plate and turn it. Its not hard to do. Remember, you would be running it this way for load development, not mass production.

I've got 2 -650s and one 550. I have one 650 set up for large primer. The other for small primer. Then its not a huge deal to switch between calibers. But its still more than for a 550. There are several changes that have to be made just for the case feeder.
 
dcmdon said:
If you disable the auto index, you would just grab the base of a couple of cases on the plate and turn it. Its not hard to do. Remember, you would be running it this way for load development, not mass production.

I've got 2 -650s and one 550. I have one 650 set up for large primer. The other for small primer. Then its not a huge deal to switch between calibers. But its still more than for a 550. There are several changes that have to be made just for the case feeder.
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I would probably run it like that at all times.
I hate that it auto indexes while I’m setting up dies and adjusting powder drops etc.
I’ll stick with the 550 but that 750 sure looks nice.
 
Michael J. Spangler said:
I would probably run it like that at all times.
I hate that it auto indexes while I’m setting up dies and adjusting powder drops etc.
I’ll stick with the 550 but that 750 sure looks nice.
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The auto index is part of what makes it fast. With the case feeder, you crank the handle with your left hand and put bullets on the case with your left. You can get a good rhythm going. I'd guess you could only run 60% as fast without the auto index.

The auto index is a pain in the butt when setting up the press. But then again, once you set up a tool head, you really never need to do it again. Even if you change calibers.

If I was retired, I'd just have 550s. (maybe). I love how they work. Zero frustration. Just slower. As it is, I can go down into the basement and rip off an evenings worth of pistol ammo in 15 minutes. The 650/750 was designed around 2 extra functions that the 550 didn't have. 1) case feeder 2) auto index.
 
dcmdon said:
The auto index is part of what makes it fast. With the case feeder, you crank the handle with your left hand and put bullets on the case with your left. You can get a good rhythm going. I'd guess you could only run 60% as fast without the auto index.

The auto index is a pain in the butt when setting up the press. But then again, once you set up a tool head, you really never need to do it again. Even if you change calibers.

If I was retired, I'd just have 550s. (maybe). I love how they work. Zero frustration. Just slower. As it is, I can go down into the basement and rip off an evenings worth of pistol ammo in 15 minutes. The 650/750 was designed around 2 extra functions that the 550 didn't have. 1) case feeder 2) auto index.
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Can't you put a bullet feeder on at 650/750 too?

Would that make much of a difference in speed?

I find on my 550 the thing that takes the longest is inserting a new case. I can streamline the "grab a bullet, advance the feed, place the bullet" way way faster than I can "pull the handle, insert a new case"
 
dcmdon said:
The auto index is part of what makes it fast. With the case feeder, you crank the handle with your left hand and put bullets on the case with your left. You can get a good rhythm going. I'd guess you could only run 60% as fast without the auto index.

The auto index is a pain in the butt when setting up the press. But then again, once you set up a tool head, you really never need to do it again. Even if you change calibers.

If I was retired, I'd just have 550s. (maybe). I love how they work. Zero frustration. Just slower. As it is, I can go down into the basement and rip off an evenings worth of pistol ammo in 15 minutes. The 650/750 was designed around 2 extra functions that the 550 didn't have. 1) case feeder 2) auto index.
Click to expand...
I do like the idea of the 650/750 and love the speed. I just switch cartridges too much and don’t really settle in to load 1000 of anything at one shot. I also mess with tons of different bullets and powders so I’m always adjusting and from my experience with SDB auto indexing (though these machine are all mashed into a really small package which presents its own frustrations even more so than the generously spaced 650) I would be annoyed.
I load 38 special mostly with a Lyman 358156 over 3.5 grains of bullseye. I might rip through loading a thousand of those in week or so. It’s my standard load for 38 and I shoot it every week. Even so I change that press over all the time to mess with 100 of these and 100 of those for different random cast bullets.

I guess I can blame casting for that. I can mess with different bullets, buy Lee Moulds for $20 and borrow Moulds from friends so I always have something new and cool to play with. Also not shooting any type of competition keeps me less rigid on loading tons of a specific purpose load.

which reminds me I need to cast some bullets tonight.
 
milktree said:
Can't you put a bullet feeder on at 650/750 too?

Would that make much of a difference in speed?

I find on my 550 the thing that takes the longest is inserting a new case. I can streamline the "grab a bullet, advance the feed, place the bullet" way way faster than I can "pull the handle, insert a new case"
Click to expand...
I’ve worked out the most efficient way that I could think to load on the 550.
when your left hand is placing the bullet on top the expanded brass and indexing it at the same time your right hand is sitting there doing nothing. I use that down time to grab a new piece of brass with my right hand before I pull the press handle again. Now while the right hand is pulling the press handle your left hand is doing nothing. Use that time to grab a new bullet with your left hand and be ready to place it on the next case.

making sure you have efficient movements can speed up your production a ton.
 
If you are not going to use auto indexing, then it seems to me that getting a 650/750 would be kind of pointless.
 
M1911 said:
If you are not going to use auto indexing, then it seems to me that getting a 650/750 would be kind of pointless.
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milktree said:
I disagree.

A 750 with a bullet feeder and a case feeder but no auto-advance would be nearly as fast as one with the advance.

The 5th station has actual value.
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Milktree beat me to it. The 650 shines with a case feeder. Everything I've read and heard from friends who had case feeders on a 550 points to them sucking. Even without a bullet feeder you're almost as fast. Your left hand does nothing the whole time so you might as well feed bullets. The 5th station can have value for a powder cop but again I'm not trying to produce 5000 rounds in a sitting so I can practice that week. I'll just look at the powder in the case as they rotate by. My eyes aren't being used for anything else while I'm reloading either.
 
jaypap said:
I'm still trying to decide if I want to upgrade my spring return powder measures to the fail safe style.
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I like the failsafe. It feels smoother and not at snappy as the spring returns. I would imagine it would be better for the machine overall. Less upward tension on the slide and the post.
 
milktree said:
I disagree.

A 750 with a bullet feeder and a case feeder but no auto-advance would be nearly as fast as one with the advance.

The 5th station has actual value.
Click to expand...
That's true provided you advance with your left hand and crank wit your right.

But its POINTLESS. You've added the cost and complexity of a bullet feeder with no increase in speed. A stock 650/750 is just as fast and saves you the cost of the bullet feeder.

For the configuration you just described, you could buy a 650/750 for production and a 550 for load development.
 
milktree said:
My completely inexperienced gut thought on this is that the APS system where the primers are in little reloadable plastic strips has some huge advantages:
- You can switch primers without spilling all the extras all over the floor
- The strips are cheap and can be reloaded easily while watching TV (no pickup tubes!)
- Positive indexing, no gravity required

I'm sure there are loads of downsides I don't know about though, having never actually used an APS system.
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Figures i missed this.... but last i saw them, APS strips were sold preloaded.... during obamascare 2 it was easier to get cci aps strips than loose boxes of primers.... [laugh]

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Figures i missed this.... but last i saw them, APS strips were sold preloaded.... during obamascare 2 it was easier to get cci aps strips than loose boxes of primers.... [laugh]

-Mike
Click to expand...

I'm 100% sure I've seen a tool that loads APS strips.

So, buy some pre-loaded APS strips, then spend some quality time loading strips in front of the TV or something.

Kinda like having 100 primer tubes!
 
You are correct. How about removing the index bearing cam that is on the left side of the press. The Dillon is all plastic. It moves the ring indexer #13677. It is called the indexer block #16776.It is not to painful to reinstall and adjust. I had installed the upgrade with the roller. Index Bearing Cam Block UPGRADE Dillon Precision XL 650 Index Bearing Cam Block UPGRADE Dillon Precision XL 650 Actuator Metalwerksusa | eBay
 
MikFinkel said:
You are correct. How about removing the index bearing cam that is on the left side of the press. The Dillon is all plastic. It moves the ring indexer #13677. It is called the indexer block #16776.It is not to painful to reinstall and adjust. I had installed the upgrade with the roller. Index Bearing Cam Block UPGRADE Dillon Precision XL 650 Index Bearing Cam Block UPGRADE Dillon Precision XL 650 Actuator Metalwerksusa | eBay
Click to expand...

The "game changer" for me would be if you could turn the indexing on/off with an external lever or something.

If you have to take it apart, there's no benefit.
 
MikFinkel said:
You are correct. How about removing the index bearing cam that is on the left side of the press. The Dillon is all plastic. It moves the ring indexer #13677. It is called the indexer block #16776.It is not to painful to reinstall and adjust. I had installed the upgrade with the roller. Index Bearing Cam Block UPGRADE Dillon Precision XL 650 Index Bearing Cam Block UPGRADE Dillon Precision XL 650 Actuator Metalwerksusa | eBay
Click to expand...

I have one of these and it is fantastic. I actually had a specific problem to solve. The body of the press was machined a bit incorrectly and the block sits out a bit too much. So it only contacted the cam on about half of its thickness. After about 10,000 rounds the cam would wear and start slipping off the block. It was a pain in the ass to fix every year or so.

I could have shipped it back to dillon to have it fixed. I could have taken a file to the body of the press on my own.

But for~$20, the problem was solved and the press was smoothed up a bit in the process.
 
Michael J. Spangler said:
Everything I've read and heard from friends who had case feeders on a 550 points to them sucking.
Click to expand...

Is it one thing about it that sucks or a compilation of several things?
Was thinking of adding a case feeder to the 550, and I understand its an afterthought from a design perspective, but what is the actual problem or problems?
Looks like it would completely block off that station, but I've never seen one attached either.
I like the 550 "rewind" option of the manual index and really don't want to get another press just for a case feed.
 
TrashcanDan said:
Is it one thing about it that sucks or a compilation of several things?
Was thinking of adding a case feeder to the 550, and I understand its an afterthought from a design perspective, but what is the actual problem or problems?
Looks like it would completely block off that station, but I've never seen one attached either.
I like the 550 "rewind" option of the manual index and really don't want to get another press just for a case feed.
Click to expand...
I hear the same thing. It’s an after thought and they are just super finicky. They don’t have enough room to do it right so it’s just kind of jammed in there.
Totally agree on the rewind. I had one “genius” tell me that the 550 is the most dangerous press ever designed because it doesn’t auto index and you could drop the powder twice. I think if you can’t handle manually indexing a press you shouldn’t be reloading anyway.
I have set up SDBs and 650s for and with friends and have to say I have chasing cases around when trying to adjust the dies and powder drop. It doesn’t make sense.
Now if the there were an easy way to switch off and on the auto index on a 650/750 I would be all over it. The main reason is for ease of set up.
Ask my left hand has to put a bullet on the case so my hand is already there to do the indexing anyway.
 
TrashcanDan said:
Yea, doesn't look like an ideal way to go.
Did some quick research and found this pic over at the b.e. forums.
Looks like there might be a clashing issue with the handle, among other things.

View attachment 347448
Click to expand...
Yeah just not worth it to me. If I shot one cartridge exclusively and loaded a couple thousand a week I would consider a case feeder and a press that works with it.
I just don’t see the need for the few hundred I shoot each range trip.
I also like to be able to switch out to another cartridge randomly and make 100 rounds of something else without having to worry about a 15 minute or more change over.
 
dcmdon said:
I've got both a 650 and a 550.

The "problem" with the 650 is that if you don't have a shell on the case plate, it indexes anyway. That "extra" primer gets dropped on a plastic "ski ramp". Where up to 5 can accumulate or if they decide to jump off onto the floor.

It sucks.

However, the aftermarket has pretty much resolved this. My two 650s wear a "live primer bottle catch" that accumulates these primers. When the bottle is full, its got about 65 primers in it. I dump them onto the primer flip tray, put them into a primer tube and load them back into the press.

Its a 95% solution.

Don
Click to expand...

I just make the live primer "catcher" higher by putting blue painters tape around the sides...
 
milktree said:
The one thing that would make a 650 or 750 much, much better is the ability to turn the auto-indexing off.
Click to expand...
Unscrew the hex bolt on the indexer ramp ( on the right front side of the unit), this stops the indexing while you make all your adjustments...once adjusted, put it back and away you go!
 

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