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- Thread starter crypto
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crypto said:
Just to elaborate...
1. "post ban" SBR must comply with the Mass AW ban, so you need a "pre ban" gun if you want to "cut it down" to a SBR with "evil features"...
2. Yes if you plan to build yourself, you must first file a form 1, and can only build once approved.
3. You must have an approved form 5320.20 if you cross state lines, and ATF won't aprove the form if your desination state prohibits the item. Unlike Form1's & 4's the 5320.20 go through pretty fast ussually only taking a couple weeks. you can down load the form from ATF.gov
A possibly useful addendum to this-
A 5320.20 can be specified for a time period up to a year.
So if you have an SBR that you say, take to NH to fire at a
range, you could get approval to move the gun from MA to NH
and back for that period of time. And if you keep doing it, you
can just fill out another 5320.20 before the year is up.
Frankly I think those restrictions on SBRS/SBS/MGS/etc. are unreasonable, but
at least the ATF seems to be expedient about processing the forms.
-Mike
A 5320.20 can be specified for a time period up to a year.
So if you have an SBR that you say, take to NH to fire at a
range, you could get approval to move the gun from MA to NH
and back for that period of time. And if you keep doing it, you
can just fill out another 5320.20 before the year is up.
Frankly I think those restrictions on SBRS/SBS/MGS/etc. are unreasonable, but
at least the ATF seems to be expedient about processing the forms.
-Mike
There are in fact three lines on the form, I've been known to "squeeze" an extra line on the form so I can get four guns on one form. And those have been approved in the past. Problably shouldn't put more than three on the form but, whatever...
As far as dates go...like was mentioned ATF will apporve forms for up to 1 year periods, so every January I send in a bunch of 5320.20's for my fequently visited out of state locations covering Jan1-Dec 31, that way if I make a "last minute" trip up to maine or something I don't have to worry about getting forms in quick...
I'd be careful about that. Yes, you could put the 16+" upper on your NFA registered frame/receiver and be legal federally, but... if the -16" upper is located anywhere near your registered lower (of course it will be), you could be charged with "constructive intent"... that is you have the capability to assemble an SBR.
Realistically... I wouldn't worry about it, but if state laws say otherwise, and they really want to burn you for it they could do that.
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How would that be? If he only has ONE lower (the NFA registered one) then
how can a (state) get him on constructive posession?
Federally speaking, constructive posession could be having an AR, that
isnt registered as SBR, in posession with a short barreled upper, even if
it's not on the gun.
The only snag I could think of with someone with an NFA reciever (eg SBR)
attaching a normally type-I upper to it is, some kind of weird federal
thing. The ATF couldn't get you for not paying the tax, but its possible
they could get you for whatever "law" applies to not filing the 5320.20
form. (assuming that the person in question moves his SBR lower
without filing a 5320.20, even with a Title-I type upper on it. ) Someone
has probably answered this definitively before though, I'd look on subguns.com or
the bardwell NFA faq about it. (EG, the topic being,
temporarily making an SBR -NOT- an SBR, thus avoiding the filing...
but frankly, with the cost of a lower... just buy another gun. Of course
theres a whole can of worms with that, too... especially if you have
multiple shortened uppers for your SBR. My guess is going to be
that most lawyers are just going to tell you to file the form, given that
it doesn't really cost anything to do so, other than postage. So it's
cheap insurance... )
IIRC, its also important to know that most of this NFA stuff is only regulated
by the feds. Most free states have little to no laws regarding SBRs, SBSes,
MGs, etc. Some only require that the devices be federally registered. (EG, FL).
This doesn't mean you shouldn't look at state laws, of course people
should... but most of the time the biggest problem areas are going to be
at the federal level. Additionally, having your fed paperwork in order
at the fed level is useful if you need to assert to a LEO that the gun/device
that you have is indeed legal. A recalcitrant LEO may change their tun
when you explain that the ATF generally does not approve temp move forms,
etc, if the device would be illegal in the destination state. (via state
law).
-Mike
Greetings. I just found this site and ran across a subject which has provided some headpain. Making a SBR in Massachusetts with a post-ban receiver. Let me muddy the waters. If I'm not mistaken, the MA AWB addresses "semi-automatic assault weapons" of a "sporting purpose". Were one to make a SBR with a post-ban receiver, the act of receiving an approved Form1, the created firearm then comes under NFA rules and per ATFE is no longer under the AWB (at the time of determination, when the Federal ban was in effect) and is not for "sporting purposes". The way I figure it, making a SBR takes it out of the purview of an AW as defined in MA GL. Any Boston lawyers out there who understand MA law? Am I right? or where have I gone astray.![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
Greetings. I just found this site and ran across a subject which has provided some headpain. Making a SBR in Massachusetts with a post-ban receiver. Let me muddy the waters. If I'm not mistaken, the MA AWB addresses "semi-automatic assault weapons" of a "sporting purpose". Were one to make a SBR with a post-ban receiver, the act of receiving an approved Form1, the created firearm then comes under NFA rules and per ATFE is no longer under the AWB (at the time of determination, when the Federal ban was in effect) and is not for "sporting purposes". The way I figure it, making a SBR takes it out of the purview of an AW as defined in MA GL. Any Boston lawyers out there who understand MA law? Am I right? or where have I gone astray.
IMO that won't work here. MA still has it's -own- definitions of what
constitutes an AW. Those definitions are still legally binding, irrespective
of whatever the feds think about the gun. A BATFE determination
saying "Post Ban SBRs are exempt from the AWB" has ZERO legal bearing
on MA law. Just because MA photocopied the AWB into its own laws
doesn't make it linked to current federal law/interpretation.
Example- Say hell froze over and the federal legislature revoked the
entire NFA tomorrow. So "SBR" becomes a meaningless
term. It still doesnt matter because MA doesn't have any special
exceptions for SBRs, or anything like that. (EG, MA I think considers an
SBR to be considered a "firearm" and thats about as fancy as it
gets.)
-Mike
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Greetings. I just found this site and ran across a subject which has provided some headpain. Making a SBR in Massachusetts with a post-ban receiver. Let me muddy the waters. If I'm not mistaken, the MA AWB addresses "semi-automatic assault weapons" of a "sporting purpose". Were one to make a SBR with a post-ban receiver, the act of receiving an approved Form1, the created firearm then comes under NFA rules and per ATFE is no longer under the AWB (at the time of determination, when the Federal ban was in effect) and is not for "sporting purposes". The way I figure it, making a SBR takes it out of the purview of an AW as defined in MA GL. Any Boston lawyers out there who understand MA law? Am I right? or where have I gone astray.
Back in the days of Federal AW Ban, making a gun into an SBR DID NOT get you around the AW ban (In all of the US, SBR's built between 1994-2004 had to be "post ban") The Mass AW Ban is a mirror of the fed ban, so in 04 when the rest of the country could start making "banless" SBR's again, we continued to be stuck...if you want a "pre ban" style SBR you need to build it on a Pre ban host gun...
sb, I think he might have gotten his wires crossed there a bit.
On a few boards, there has been considerable controversy about
this.... not as it pretains to the AWB, but more specifically to the still-existing
922r problem. (The whole GWB import ban thing) and how it does or doesnt
pretain to SBRs. Someone made the argument that by registering say, a krink, as an
SBR, that it was not longer subject to the "sporting purpouses"
conditions/parts count crap present in 922r. Regardless of wether or not
it's true, (my guess would be that the ATF says NO, but who knows, as they
seem to change their mind every 10 minutes.) it's still irrelevant in the
sense of MA law, regardless.
-Mike
Thanks for the replys. There are "laws" and then there's Massachusetts. I bought a Yugo M92 kit and a post-ban receiver. Then I got to thinking, researching, and came up with the same "not in Massachusetts" answer. I went out and bought two pre-ban AKs. One of which has identity on the receiver. The other just is stamped on the trunion. By the time I got everything assembled....I lost my enthusiasm. I did see where a fellow Massachusettsite did exactly what I was going to do. He did his on a pre-ban Poly and had it up for sale for $1500. I wish I saw his sooner. Now I'm waiting for the Master Card to cool before I get back into it, if at all. Thanks all.
