DeLeo Gun Bill and Mil Surp Collectors

[xcom]

A bit of a dupe from the general forum but all of us with C&R FFLs and that love the CMP rifles should look at the text of the bill as it appears that it may drastically change how many of us use to do things.

"The legislation authorizes a police chief to deny a Firearm Identification Card for a rifle or shotgun based on a suitability standard. It extends federal restrictions for firearm acquisition to the state level and denies convicted felons the right to acquire an FID card."

Read the bold as all transactions must go through a dealer FFL


http://www.necn.com/05/27/14/Mass-H...ompr/landing.html?blockID=867039&feedID=11106

I figured we could use this as our musings on the text once it comes out to keep us informed as a subgroup.

 

[xcom]

Here is the text from the bill dealing with transfers. One wonders if an interstate FFL to FFL transfer is "Pursuant" to this section?

"SECTION 18. Section 128A of said chapter 140 is hereby amended by adding the following 2 sentences:- Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall take place at the location of a dealer licensed pursuant to section 122, who shall transmit the information required by this section for purchases and sales to the department of criminal justice information services. A licensed dealer may charge the seller a fee not to exceed $25 for each sale or transfer submitted on behalf of the seller to the department of criminal justice information services."

http://goal.org/Documents/An Act Relative to the Reduction of Gun Violence (HD4253).pdf

 

[jpm]

I don't see how "extending federal restrictions for firearm acquisition to the state level" would affect C&R holders since we already operate at the federal level as FFL holders.

Within the context of the sentences on either side of that one, it seems to me that they are talking about the prohibited persons thing, not buying a gun from another state.

 

[92G]

I also do not see how father DeLeo's new contraption could impact C&R system.
not saying its impossible but i just dont see this bill affecting C&R

 

[browncoat]

Wow. Submitting paperwork for a c&r FFL as son as I get back to MA.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk

 

[45collector]

Wow. Submitting paperwork for a c&r FFL as son as I get back to MA.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk

See if you can find yourself a handful of paper FA10's while you're at it. They are still out there.

 

[Len-2A Training]

See if you can find yourself a handful of paper FA10's while you're at it. They are still out there.

For C&Rs obtained outside MA, don't waste those precious paper forms. Do it as an eFA-10 (Registration), just ignore (bypass) the screen that asks where you got it.

 

[xcom]

For C&Rs obtained outside MA, don't waste those precious paper forms. Do it as an eFA-10 (Registration), just ignore (bypass) the screen that asks where you got it.

This is how I have always done it.

I wonder if they get rid of the eFA-10 site (arguendo that the no more FTF goes through) how one would report an FFL to FFL 03 transaction interstate?

 

[xcom]

I also do not see how father DeLeo's new contraption could impact C&R system.
not saying its impossible but i just dont see this bill affecting C&R

It is all in how the "must happen at a dealer FFL" language looks like. I have not completely digested the text yet to determine what impact it will have on CMP and C&R transactions. Anyone know what happened to C&R folks in NY or CT? I know the CMP started shipping only to FFLs in those states once the laws were broken (i.e., the Constitution).

 

[Len-2A Training]

This is how I have always done it.

I wonder if they get rid of the eFA-10 site (arguendo that the no more FTF goes through) how one would report an FFL to FFL 03 transaction interstate?

I suspect that ALL transfers will have to go thru a MA Dealer and the C&R FFL will become useless. IIRC this is true in CA for handguns and has been true for a number of years now.

It is all in how the "must happen at a dealer FFL" language looks like. I have not completely digested the text yet to determine what impact it will have on CMP and C&R transactions. Anyone know what happened to C&R folks in NY or CT? I know the CMP started shipping only to FFLs in those states once the laws were broken (i.e., the Constitution).

See above comment.

 

[xcom]

I suspect that ALL transfers will have to go thru a MA Dealer and the C&R FFL will become useless. IIRC this is true in CA for handguns and has been true for a number of years now.




See above comment.

Seems like then if a MA C&R bought a rifle in NH and brought it into MA they would have to have it sent to an MA dealer to "register" it as there is no other way to report it apparently.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Seems like then if a MA C&R bought a rifle in NH and brought it into MA they would have to have it sent to an MA dealer to "register" it as there is no other way to report it apparently.

That's the way that I believe this would play out if passed as written.

 

[xcom]

That's the way that I believe this would play out if passed as written.

That's my take too.

Here that all you mil surplus folks on here? Get on the phones and write some letters detailing the lack of need for elimination of the FTF transfer laws in MA. (i.e., Amendments to Section 128A of chapter 140).

 

[El_Guapo77]

Seems like then if a MA C&R bought a rifle in NH and brought it into MA they would have to have it sent to an MA dealer to "register" it as there is no other way to report it apparently.

i hope that thats not the case that would make c&r's pretty much useless

 

[OfficerObie59]

I suspect that ALL transfers will have to go thru a MA Dealer and the C&R FFL will become useless. IIRC this is true in CA for handguns and has been true for a number of years now.

I think there's an argument to be made that §128A only applies to FID/LTC sellers selling to FID/LTC buyers.

 

[jpm]

For C&Rs obtained outside MA, don't waste those precious paper forms. Do it as an eFA-10 (Registration), just ignore (bypass) the screen that asks where you got it.

why do you leave blank where you got it? I've always filled that part out when I've done one for a C&R. Is there a reason for not doing it other than just giving the finger to the state?

 

[mac1911]

Here is the text from the bill dealing with transfers. One wonders if an interstate FFL to FFL transfer is "Pursuant" to this section?

"SECTION 18. Section 128A of said chapter 140 is hereby amended by adding the following 2 sentences:- Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall take place at the location of a dealer licensed pursuant to section 122, who shall transmit the information required by this section for purchases and sales to the department of criminal justice information services. A licensed dealer may charge the seller a fee not to exceed $25 for each sale or transfer submitted on behalf of the seller to the department of criminal justice information services."

http://goal.org/Documents/An Act Relative to the Reduction of Gun Violence (HD4253).pdf

ok so if this does go through and essentially all transactions have to go through a MA FFL dealer would dealers refuse to accept delivery for such transfers and push us to buy current inventory in thier shop only? I can only see this adding to the price of buying a gun in mass....

 

[jpm]

ok so if this does go through and essentially all transactions have to go through a MA FFL dealer would dealers refuse to accept delivery for such transfers and push us to buy current inventory in thier shop only? I can only see this adding to the price of buying a gun in mass....

probably no more than currently do this. The smart ones will see it as free money

 

[Len-2A Training]

why do you leave blank where you got it? I've always filled that part out when I've done one for a C&R. Is there a reason for not doing it other than just giving the finger to the state?

NOT required by law. NOT required by instructions on the older paper (3-part) FA-10s either. CJIS/FRB is building a database with lots more info than is required.

Think this thru:

- Fed Law says no FTF between 2 parties not resident in the same state.
- MGL doesn't recognize the C&R FFL at all.
- You buy a C&R gun from John Smith (C&R FFL holder) in Austin, TX. You fill his name and city out on a paper FA-10 as your Source for the gun. WHAT does that look like to LE reviewing the form??
- Do you want a visit by BATFE and local PD looking to jack you up on Federal charges? Do you want to explain that what you did was legal? Do you like to spike your blood pressure and adrenaline?

Do as you please but I'm a big believer in NOT giving gov't any more info than is LEGALLY REQUIRED . . . and that info is not legally required.

 

[noxin]

ok so if this does go through and essentially all transactions have to go through a MA FFL dealer would dealers refuse to accept delivery for such transfers and push us to buy current inventory in thier shop only? I can only see this adding to the price of buying a gun in mass....

All the cops who flip off list guns should kill this just to protect their revenue stream

 

[drgrant]

why do you leave blank where you got it? I've always filled that part out when I've done one for a C&R. Is there a reason for not doing it other than just giving the finger to the state?

Uhh, because only morons would do that? It's a registration. It's none of the state's business where the gun came from, the only thing that is required by law is recording the acquisition. Filling out the "seller" part on a registration causes problems. Don't be "that guy".

-Mike

 

[xcom]

NOT required by law. NOT required by instructions on the older paper (3-part) FA-10s either. CJIS/FRB is building a database with lots more info than is required.

Think this thru:

- Fed Law says no FTF between 2 parties not resident in the same state.
- MGL doesn't recognize the C&R FFL at all.
- You buy a C&R gun from John Smith (C&R FFL holder) in Austin, TX. You fill his name and city out on a paper FA-10 as your Source for the gun. WHAT does that look like to LE reviewing the form??
- Do you want a visit by BATFE and local PD looking to jack you up on Federal charges? Do you want to explain that what you did was legal? Do you like to spike your blood pressure and adrenaline?

Do as you please but I'm a big believer in NOT giving gov't any more info than is LEGALLY REQUIRED . . . and that info is not legally required.

To put a more explicit point on LenS excellent review, it looks like an illegal interstate transfer to the monkeys looking at the form.

 

[Len-2A Training]

To put a more explicit point on LenS excellent review, it looks like an illegal interstate transfer to the monkeys looking at the form.

That is PRECISELY the point I was trying to make. Thank you.

 

[El_Guapo77]

Uhh, because only morons would do that? It's a registration. It's none of the state's business where the gun came from, the only thing that is required by law is recording the acquisition. Filling out the "seller" part on a registration causes problems. Don't be "that guy".

-Mike

so recently purchased a c&r eligible firearm from a place that shall not be named besides keeping the log book I will have to register it correct? It will be my first purchase and I was not sure

 

[xcom]

so recently purchased a c&r eligible firearm from a place that shall not be named besides keeping the log book I will have to register it correct? It will be my first purchase and I was not sure

Yes, you log it in the BB with all the information required by the ATF and then "register" it with MA. You can leave the "from" blank. Have done it for years on paper and efa-10 when I had to without a hitch. I am talking about a C&R interstate sale. I do it this way for the CMP as well (which I would have to log in my BB anyway as it is a C&R despite the fact that I did not use my C&R to buy it).

 

[jpm]

Uhh, because only morons would do that? It's a registration. It's none of the state's business where the gun came from, the only thing that is required by law is recording the acquisition. Filling out the "seller" part on a registration causes problems. Don't be "that guy".

Don't be an ass****, its a legitimate question. How the f*** am I supposed to know I shouldn't fill out the form in its entirety?? It certainly doesn't say on there that the seller section is optional. I suppose I should have simply divined this information as I was filling it out?

- - - Updated - - -

To put a more explicit point on LenS excellent review, it looks like an illegal interstate transfer to the monkeys looking at the form.

Thanks to the two of you at least for not being dickheads about it!

 

[mac1911]

I dont want to get off topic.......but
Where do I go to read what is actually going to the floor to be voted on? I have read of several bills that where to go to committee but have not really been able to see what or which of those bills maid it out of committee and going to the floor for a vote?

I been reading through the link provided and been trying to cross reference the actual changes side by side with the current laws and become lost after a while...

 

[xcom]

I dont want to get off topic.......but
Where do I go to read what is actually going to the floor to be voted on? I have read of several bills that where to go to committee but have not really been able to see what or which of those bills maid it out of committee and going to the floor for a vote?

I been reading through the link provided and been trying to cross reference the actual changes side by side with the current laws and become lost after a while...

GOAL is going to have out a point by point review so I would wait for that. Here is what they have so far. If you have been in the main thread, there are some pretty ugly "tangent" issues as well. The bill is HD.4253

http://www.goal.org/alert-defeat-chapter-180-part2.html

 

[drgrant]

Don't be an ass****, its a legitimate question. How the f*** am I supposed to know I shouldn't fill out the form in its entirety?? It certainly doesn't say on there that the seller section is optional. I suppose I should have simply divined this information as I was filling it out?

Sorry if I was a little coarse/insulting there, but it is pretty common knowledge. It also doesn't help that the new E-FA-10 directions (printed on the website itself) are somewhat misleading and erroneous WRT what the law actually requires. The "seller" section is only filled out on transfers (of things that are actually firearms/rifles/shotguns under MGL, not frames or receivers) between two MA entities.

These are the instructions on the paper FA-10 forms... which are the "correct" ones:






-Mike

 

[JZ1018]

Since this Bill (H.4121) also gives more power to the AG to restrict the types of handguns that are allowed in this state, it could quite possibly kill the ability to acquire C&R handguns.