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Deer and the FLIR Thermal Imager

ThePreBanMan said:
I don't know.... Is the moon a man sized or game sized object?
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Haha

Ok serious answer: the moon is a half-degree in angular extent. That's the same size as a deer at 300-400 meters. So you should be able to see a deer and recognize it as a deer at that distance with a typical low-resolution thermal imager.
 
JayMcB said:
could one of the E class models (hacked or not) give you that kind of range/clarity? Talk about an advantage!
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The picture in my first post is from a $8K FLIR E60. That's the top of the Exx line and has a slightly better sensor, lens and focusing system. Getting a similar picture from an unmodified E4 is not possible, but a E8 or hacked E4? Possible, maybe not quite as sharp as the E60.

I'm working on capturing some video, maybe post later this week.
 
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thanks for the updates Kevin...

very tempted to try and find an E4, but i'm stuck with the i7 (which is actually very good)... until i graduate and go pro (nobody needs energy audits!) the higher end stuff will be a dream within a dream... that high end unit can broadcast images on wifi!

how is it that FLIR can sell a 640x480 unit for around $8k (which can take special lenses), and has real video outs and all that? seems weird.

J
 
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Any hacks to make a Scout PS32 out of a PS24? I think that's the device I'm looking for, to use in conjunction with a NV device (OPMOD PVS-14 ).
 
Kevin_NH said:
The picture in my first post is from a $8K FLIR E60. That's the top of the Exx line and has a slightly better sensor, lens and focusing system. Getting a similar picture from an unmodified E4 is not possible, but a E8 or hacked E4? Possible, maybe not quite as sharp as the E60.

I'm working on capturing some video, maybe post later this week.
Click to expand...


That's my image! I took that one night in mid November, 2013. I don't remember the exact time, but it was after 2 AM. It was taken from my backyard facing the adjoining common ground. The area is in South St. Louis County where hunting (even discharging a firearm) wouldn't really be a good idea. I posted the image along with a video on LiveLeak.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c30_1384763746

I purchased the FLIR E60 to inspect my rental properties and to find possible faults in properties I might consider making an offer on. So far, the learning curve to properly interpreting the image has been huge. It's easy to just point and shoot -- as seen in the photo with the deer, but if you're looking for faults (especially water damage or mold) knowing how to setup the imager is paramount.

I'm purchasing two FLIR E4 imagers -- one for a friend, the other to play with simply for firmware challenge, maybe attach it to a multi rotor… As far as I know, units being shipped are still hackable. FLIR attempted to close the hack with versions 1.21 and 1.22 but they were quickly circumvented. I heard from a FLIR tech last week that they are actively trying to fix this -- so it's not known what will happen in the near future.

If you order them from TEquipment.net, you can get them for $895 if you request a quote. As far as how easy the hack is, I don't know at this point. I've tried to follow the 300+ page thread on the EEVblog forum. It appears fairly straight forward.

What I don't know at this point is how the two E4 ($895) vs. my E60 ($8,195) would compare. They may use identical bolometers but the image process would likely be different. I know the E4 runs at a 9 Hz refresh rate where as my E60 runs at 60 Hz. I'm not sure if there is a way to modify this via firmware.


I will try and remember to document and post the results back here when the E4's arrive. If you want, bother me occasionally until I post them -- I'm often lazy and fail to follow up with things. :)

Feel free to ask questions -- I'll try to answer what I can with my limited knowledge of thermography.
 
New BT and DT cameras from FLIR starting at $499 MSRP?

Back in April, FLIR announced 3 new families of thermal surveillance imagers, then went quiet? I suppose when none of their competitors followed them into the sub-$3K price point, they decided to hold back on the cheap product lines?
FLIR said:
FLIR Systems is proud to announce the release of three new lines of its industry-leading thermal security cameras with MSRP’s starting at $499. In all there are 12 new models ranging from the BT-Series mini-bullets with 50° and 25° fields of view, to the DT-Series PTZ dome cameras with sensor resolutions up to VGA and fields of view as narrow as 9°.
Providing superior video security day and night, thermal cameras need no additional illumination infrastructure while still giving you unmatched intrusion detection and alarm assessment. This, coupled with their ability to cover wider areas more effectively and with few cameras, means that the technology combination of thermal cameras and intrusion video analytics can actually be a more affordable and effective solution than any other intrusion detection technology.
By re-setting the pricing paradigm for thermal cameras, FLIR is making thermal an economical option for any class of customer, including small businesses and most residential installations, broadening the potential markets for dealers and installers alike.
For more information, please visit www.flirsecurity.com/pro
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No further details of the new BT on their website, nothing released on this after April, other than an indirect mention here.
 
They introduced a new imager this year. It is a TG165. 80x60 resolution at 9Hz for $499. I've seen a couple of teardown videos of the unit and there really isn't anything to them. The battery is not easily replaceable and would likely have to be sent back to FLIR for replacement when it no longer holds a charge. No idea on what that would cost.

Earlier this year, it was discovered that the FLIR E4 series thermal imager ($895) was firmware hackable. By default, the imager operated at 80x60 resolution…but it used the same bolometer as it's more expensive counterpart, the FLIR E8 ($3,995) which operated at 320x240. I picked two up and modified the firmware, which was very easy to do. It now has the same resolution as my E60 which, unfortunately, I spent $8,000 on last year. It has it's limitations in comparison to my E60. My E60 has Bluetooth, WiFi and the ability to record video along with a much faster refresh rate at 60Hz. The E4 cannot do those things…but for a sub $1k imager, it's fantastic.

FLIR has been busy patching the firmware and trying to implement hardware countermeasures to prevent hacking, but I'm not sure how successful they've been -- I haven't followed the forum where I found it, so I don't know. The detailed thread on the EEVblog forum has the info if you're willing to dive in and read it (URL below)

They're really a lot of fun to use at night. As long as it can detect a heat signature above background, it'll display it regardless of the distance.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/
 
What happened to the BT/DT FLIR Pro thermal security cameras announced in April?

No offense, but that's pretty much what I said on page 1, about a year ago when I started the thread...

What I'm looking for are this year's vaporware $500 FLIR Pro thermal security cameras, designed for mounting on buildings or light poles and capable of running 24x7x365 from a 12VDC supply.
 
The small plug and play ones look cool...wonder how good they work compared to the full units...I've been meaning to borrow the one we have at work!
 
For the price of that, I'd pass. If it's not weapon mountable I'm not spending $2k+ on it. Why would you buy that when you can get the higher end Torrey for $700 and buy the Aimpoint to go with it for less than half the price?

If you want a scannable area solution, the cell phone/tablet adapters are a far better solution IMO.
 
Not certain this is what you're referring to, but I'm pretty sure that throwing a regular scope in front of a thermal device won't work. I believe the heat signature of whatever your target is will be blocked by the scope, and you'll only pick up the temperature of the scope glass.

Your idea did get me excited for a second, though. Pretty cool stuff nevertheless.
 
xtry51 said:
For the price of that, I'd pass. If it's not weapon mountable I'm not spending $2k+ on it. Why would you buy that when you can get the higher end Torrey for $700 and buy the Aimpoint to go with it for less than half the price?

If you want a scannable area solution, the cell phone/tablet adapters are a far better solution IMO.
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Resolution is too low on the cell phone solutions though..
 
metalcowboy said:
Not certain this is what you're referring to, but I'm pretty sure that throwing a regular scope in front of a thermal device won't work. I believe the heat signature of whatever your target is will be blocked by the scope, and you'll only pick up the temperature of the scope glass.

Your idea did get me excited for a second, though. Pretty cool stuff nevertheless.
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Dude, you put the thermal IN FRONT of the Aimpoint. If you look at the videos for that company they specifically say that's how to use it and make a model with a QR mount.

They don't say how to zero it, but I'm assuming you can based on how the rep described it.
 
Ahh, gotcha. I watched a couple of the Torrey videos without sound, guess I missed that.

I saw pictures of the Torrey that showed a reticle on the screen, so I was trying to determine why one would want to combine it with another optic. If you can zero the Torrey, I thought the only reason for doing this would be for magnification. I also realized this wouldn't really work regardless of which order you mounted the optics. It seemed more obvious to me that putting the thermal in front of the scope wouldn't achieve this goal, and seemed more reasonable to me that one could mistake the other way as being functional. I also, as ridiculous as it may seem for someone on this site, didn't realize that "aimpoint" implies a 1x red dot and not something with magnification.

I just looked at a number of models on the Torrey website and none of the ones I looked at has an adjustable reticle, so I would understand adding a red dot to something like that.

Thanks.
 
Keep in mind what refresh rate the thermal optic is. I have to imagine 9hz is choppy when tracking a moving target.

For reference my IR Defense thermal is 60hz
 
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