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CZ P10 - Improving upon "Perfection"
- Thread starter japollner
- Start date
Love Machine
NES Member
It's not. They're trying to out-Glock the Glock, which is going to suck. The P07/P09 are better, because they're not trying to copy anyone.
it looks like a nice design. the lines look very good. certainly from aesthetic perspective i'm already impressed. hopefully the internals are well thought out and constructed.
the entire firearms industry is based on copying (and hopefully improving) on previous designs. CZ isn't copying glock anymore than glock copied HK. it's a giant circle. who cares. as long as the P10c is well built and good design, I already like it.
and in terms of "copying" probably Walther has been copied a ton and nobody seems to care. the canik is a copied P99. the HK designs are copies of the PPQ (at least in terms of externals), the PPK has been copied ad nauseam, the beretta 92 is a copy of the P38/P1, etc.
the entire firearms industry is based on copying (and hopefully improving) on previous designs. CZ isn't copying glock anymore than glock copied HK. it's a giant circle. who cares. as long as the P10c is well built and good design, I already like it.
and in terms of "copying" probably Walther has been copied a ton and nobody seems to care. the canik is a copied P99. the HK designs are copies of the PPQ (at least in terms of externals), the PPK has been copied ad nauseam, the beretta 92 is a copy of the P38/P1, etc.
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E.Stoner
NES Member
Looks like it could be a contender.
I'm curious to see how the production models pan out once more people have access to them. You never know what's black magic as been done to the "tester" guns.
I'm curious to see how the production models pan out once more people have access to them. You never know what's black magic as been done to the "tester" guns.
15+1, striker fired with a match grade trigger pull and reset, and true ambi controls from the factory at $499 retail.
Something Glock STILL isn't able to do all these years later.
Edit: Oh yea, and it shoots flatter than a Glock too.
ChevyGuy91
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Well it sounds like the Military Arms Channel has already justified your purchase, enjoy it. I am not interested in a "new" design regurgitating the same features I don't need.
Flatter than a glock? ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
OK. ![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
I'm sure its a great pistol but I want to see some aftermarket support and holster support first. As far as the price of the gun goes, yawn. A couple hundred either way doesn't bother me. It's the price of the mags that I get more agitated about than the price of the gun. If the mags cost less than $35 apiece they'll have a winner. Part of the reason Glocks are near the top of the stack is because the consumables are available and pretty inexpensive.
-Mike
OK. I'm sure its a great pistol but I want to see some aftermarket support and holster support first. As far as the price of the gun goes, yawn. A couple hundred either way doesn't bother me. It's the price of the mags that I get more agitated about than the price of the gun. If the mags cost less than $35 apiece they'll have a winner. Part of the reason Glocks are near the top of the stack is because the consumables are available and pretty inexpensive.
-Mike
Flatter than a glock?
I'm sure its a great pistol but I want to see some aftermarket support and holster support first. As far as the price of the gun goes, yawn. A couple hundred either way doesn't bother me. It's the price of the mags that I get more agitated about than the price of the gun. If the mags cost less than $35 apiece they'll have a winner. Part of the reason Glocks are near the top of the stack is because the consumables are available and pretty inexpensive.
-Mike
Two of the Youtube channels to get a pre-prod gun to fire verified that it fits in a G19 holster.
Mags are going to be $35 a pop and will be compatible with existing P07 and P09 guns in the market already.
With regard to the "flatter than a Glock" statment, I haven's shot one yet, but both reviews I've found have said those exact words.
Edit: I embedded both video reviews in the OP. Take a look for yourself.
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Several positive comments on the trigger- better break, very short reset, and significantly less bounce / 'twanginess' than typical for striker fired pistols. I'm interested based on that feedback. Ambi controls are attractive as well. Since surgery on my right shoulder I have a slight preference for shooting lefty. I'd dry fire one before buying and better yet try one at the range. Mrs. Mountain needs a SD pistol and this would be a good one unless she prefers subcompact like a G26.
The trigger improvement alone would set the CZ apart from Glocks. I like Glocks just fine and have a couple- good SD pistol, OK accuracy, but the triggers suck compared to my Sig P220 or any of my 1911's.
The trigger improvement alone would set the CZ apart from Glocks. I like Glocks just fine and have a couple- good SD pistol, OK accuracy, but the triggers suck compared to my Sig P220 or any of my 1911's.
ChevyGuy91
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Apples and oranges.
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Glocks in nh are routinely around 500 fwiw
Yup. And a retail of $499 on this puts it around $100 cheaper on the shelves than a Gen 4 Glock...
ChevyGuy91
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$600 for a Glock? You need a new shop friend.
If it's $499 retail MSRP that means more like 400 bucks or so in real life. Most people aren't getting a G19 for 400 bucks or anywhere near that unless theyre on blue label program or something.
That said to me it's all just piss in the wind when buying a handgun. These things last a long ass time.. whats another 100 bucks either way? About the only solid argument is you can take that 100 bucks you "saved" and turn it into 2-3 more magazines. If it's under a grand I don't really quibble about the price too much.
-Mike
Probably just an ergonomics thing. If someone can hold (insert brand X here) better than they can hold a glock there's a perception of better controll less muzzle flip, etc.
There's also a perception thing going on. For example my P320 is more "comfortable" to shoot than my Gen4 G17 is, but the G17 is ever so slightly faster with regards to how the muzzle flops
around, it will come back to target ever so slightly faster than the P320 does... but we're talking like, piss in the wind here.
It''s mostly nebulous stuff that becomes very subjective depending on the shooter and other circumstances.
-Mike
No, no, you've got it all wrong.
Retail VS Street pricing on guns is always different. Glock 19 retail is $599 - Street pricing (typical actual sale price) is around $500. You aren't wrong there.
But CZ pistols do the same thing. My P07 "retailed" at $510. I paid $399 out the door from the shop I frequent most often.
So at a $499 retail on these P10's, I would expect to see them in the $400 - 430 range... About $100 cheaper than a Glock 19.
AKMS
Banned
Probably just an ergonomics thing. If someone can hold (insert brand X here) better than they can hold a glock there's a perception of better controll less muzzle flip, etc.
There's also a perception thing going on. For example my P320 is more "comfortable" to shoot than my Gen4 G17 is, but the G17 is ever so slightly faster with regards to how the muzzle flops
around, it will come back to target ever so slightly faster than the P320 does... but we're talking like, piss in the wind here.
It''s mostly nebulous stuff that becomes very subjective depending on the shooter and other circumstances.
-Mike
I can get behind that. I suppose if the action or muzzle was further away from your grip, there is more of a moment arm working against the girly wrists that were holding the gun. I just got confused as I am used to people describing it as what you just did: muzzle flip / snap.
ChevyGuy91
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Well there is MSRP and actual retail, but I'm not interested in splitting hairs. $400 for a pistol is cool, and if you like it, jam on. For me, this thing does nothing new.
Shooting flat = subjective opinion to explain to the internet why you chose to buy this new pistol. My Glocks all shoot plenty "flat", but I also know how to shoot.
Love Machine
NES Member
They moved from internal rails, which were uniquely them and better, to external rails. This is def copying for the sake of copying. They should spend more money on marketing the P07 instead and moved that gun forward. The Omega trigger is already awesome, as is the ambi decocker. As for shooting flatter, my P09 is more accurate than my G19. Better grip, lower recoil, internal rails. Makes hitting the target at 75 feet ridiculously easy. What I would prefer to see instead are better sights and holster support from CZ, not more guns.
I would agree with you if some hadn't been clamoring over the years for CZ to do a striker fired gun. I'd love to see those things as well.
I would wager that this pistol came out of the prototyping they did for the MHS program, where they eventually settled on submitting P09's and P07's before pulling them from the program.
There might have been a reason for the internal rails vs external rails. Who knows.
But I do know that if it shoots better than a G17, and it does it for less money while utilizing the same holsters law enforcement currently owns... thats a winner, and credit is due where credit is due. No one gives car manufacturers a hard time for improving upon Henry Ford's design.
Love Machine
NES Member
I find that really strange - CZ did polymer hammer-fired guns correctly. But you're onto something, they'd moved the rails due to the striker.
i agree the P07 is a great design and they should expand it. however the market demand is highest for striker guns. CZ is in the business to make $$. can't blame them for trying to take a slice of the striker fired market. look at HK....they've probably sold more VP9's in the past 2 years than all their other pistols combined.
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Kind of looks like a 1911 and a Glock had a love child to me. Now the question is "how long before MA inmates can buy it?" ![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Obviously, some will say "who cares about the super secret list?", but it does matter to those who don't have friendly FFL's, or those who don't want to pay the extra $200 MA surcharge.
Now the question is "how long before MA inmates can buy it?" Obviously, some will say "who cares about the super secret list?", but it does matter to those who don't have friendly FFL's, or those who don't want to pay the extra $200 MA surcharge.
Love Machine
NES Member
Given that it's pointless, it doesn't matter when MA inmates can buy it.
I've had several CZs (75, 85, P-01) in the past and loved them, albeit with age my trigger finger crooked with arthritis, so the trigger reach became too long for me and I had to sell these guns. I shoot G19 just fine. Hope P-10 will come with a short trigger reach. I liked the videos.
