Courts let cops violate 4th Amendment, murder people in their own home

[dcmdon]

ACK495 ACK495 is offline
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Hmm. Join date in 07 but only 50 posts before this thread. . Saying inflammatory things almost designed to get people to say incriminating things.

I'm starting to wonder if he is working for Martha?

 

[ACK495]

Soon enough, pal, soon enough. You'll have to dance with the devil, and he's a decent dancer.

Ok…I'm a pretty good dancer for an uncoordinated white guy.

 

[ACK495]

Do have a problem with the fire department spending the vast majority of their time "working", sitting on couches at the firehouse? Probably not, everyone loves firemen.

We wear many hats. So violent crimes, all the way to headlights out…we do it all.

 

[ACK495]

Love to see those stats on the bread delivery dying on the job.

I have stated anything that became a police officer to kick ass?? I just agreed that I would shoot a guy threatening my life with a knife. Clearly your ready to shoot anyone that walks in your door at 4am. So good luck with that when your faced with that decision. You better be ready to articulate you life or the lives of you family were in danger.

 

[dcmdon]

You never said anything like that. But your demeanor sounds like you are itching to shoot someone.

I'm not looking to hurt anyone. I am a 100% non violent person. I will never, and have never initiated any violence against any human being.

Can you say the same thing?

I am not however a passivist.

If UNKNOWN people are in my home without my invitation, my wife and I will do everything in our power to either stop their assault or drive them from our home.

My ethical right to use violence in self defense ends the moment the threat no longer has the ability or opportunity to harm me or my family.

And by the way. I'm a pu55y compared to my wife if she thinks the kids are at risk.

I'm going back to work

Don

No. 10: Police and sheriff's patrol officers
Fatalities per 100k: 21.8
Fatalities in 2007: 146
Most common cause of death: Transportation incidents

No. 7: Driver/sales workers and truck drivers
Fatalities per 100k: 28.2
Fatalities in 2007: 976
Most common cause of death: Transportation incidents

No. 1: Fishers and related fishing workers
No. 1: Fishers and related fishing workers
Fatalities per 100k: 111.8
Fatalities in 2008: 38

Most common cause of death: Transportation incidents

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-15-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-2010-3?op=1#ixzz3WFbNfXSK

Re shooting unanounced cops in your home:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-unlikely-to-face-charges-after-allegedly-shooting-police-chief/

3 incidents in this article. 1 man facing prosecution. 1 man dead, 1 cop dead, and one man who shot at cops coming in through his kitchen window, nobody killed on either side thank god, no prosecution:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/prosecutor-seeking-death-penalty-officer-killed-knock-raid/

Thieves who yell police during a home invasion:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...uusYSKhqE3QbXImig&sig2=UtywMRYMhWAEn8pOoxHE-w

Another
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...e-dead-in-st-petersburg-home-invasion/1236125

Another
http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...icles/bn9/2012/6/19/st_pete_police_inves.html

 

[ACK495]

So I don't like to post a lot? big friggin deal. I post when I feel like. I joined because I am a gun enthusiast and wanted to have the info for local shooting events. I will defend our 2nd amendment rights to the end.

I do get heated when I see immediate anti police statements that, frequently, are based on limited knowledge of the facts, so I'll post to react to what I believe in and to share some of my experience from a police perspective. Just because some of you have a bad relationship with your local authorities or have had a bad experience with a law enforcement official in the past, doesn't mean we're all *******s.

I agree with most of you regarding the use of the SWAT team for this event. We wouldn't do it were I work. I agree they screwed up NOT knocking and announcing before they entered the residence. I would think that I'm not alone and that many of you would defend yourselves as well if someone came at you with a knife. The courts decision supports that belief. I have been and always will be of the belief that I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Work for Martha?? WTF? It is amazing the amount of government conspiracists that come out of the wood work on these sites. I find it funny some of the posts and threads around here sometimes… borderline lunacy but down right comical. I just shake my head and laugh. But you wonder why maybe I don't post a lot, and maybe others are in the same boat, because if support police or disagree that police are always the bad guy, then you get attacked. So be it, but I'll keep posting.

Go back to drilling holes in your cheese, looking for those listening devices.

 

[ACK495]

Traffic accidents kill everyone unfortunately.

2014, 47 officers killed by gunfire and 2 by assault.

2015, 6 officers killed by gunfire and 1 by assault.

Show me how many bread delivery man died by being assaulted or shot

 

[dcmdon]

Work related deaths are work related deaths.

A delivery driver has more chance of dying while working than a cop. That is indisputable.

I don't have time to look for deliver drivers killed. But you may not want to go there. This job category
includes pizza delivery drivers who die often. Just google "pizza delivery murdered".

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, out of 4,609 fatal work injuries recorded in the United States in 2011, 759 of those deaths were among driver/sales workers and truck drivers. But this doesn't give the labor pool that drives those numbers so a rate is impossible to determine.

None the less, 17% of all workplace fatalities happen to drivers.

I'm not trying to diminish what you do. I'll be the first to admit that I couldn't do what you do.
But lets not puff it up to make it into something its not.

Its not combat. Somehow the term "peace officer" morphed into "law enforcement officer".

Another cop friend was a prison guard before he became a cop. He said that was the toughest job he's ever had. Much harder than being a cop.

Something also not in the stat but I'll find it is the majority of cops who die in traffic incidents were just on routine patrol. They were not racing to an emergency.

This means that if you rally care about "making it home at night", you will stop driving like cops drive and obey traffic laws when your lights and/or siren are not on.

If I had a dollar for every time I saw a CT state trooper go by me at 90 right around shift change I could buy us a couple of beers and we could debate this in person.

Thanks for keeping it civil. ***edit**oops I wrote this before I read your post suggesting I'm paranoid.

You may not know this, but people have had their LTCs pulled and have been prosecuted based on things they have said on this forum. So its not paranoia. Martha and her henchmen/women do troll this forum. Another indisputable fact.

 

[Bfatz]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it’s natural manure.
~Thomas Jefferson Aug. 30. 1787

 

[spcantwell]

They apparently didn't when they failed to knock and announce. Someone dropped the ball on that one. However, that doesn't take away the FACT, he came at them with a knife. You need to separate that from the rest and take each part as its own entity. The shoot isn't automatically bad because the entry wasn't good. This isn't murder or even friggin close. And I'll say it again. I would have done the same if threatened with a knife. How's that cake?

INAL... BUT... Wouldnt this all fall under the same concept of 'fruit of the poisonous tree'?
if they entered the house ILLEGALY by not following the warrent (which would have allowed them legal access) all actions taken by them would also be illegal and they should not be considered 'police' but random people breaking into someones house.

This case shouldnt be any diffent then if someone broke into a guys house and then shot him and claimed 'self defence' becuase the home owner was 'potentialy' armed.

 

[spcantwell]

Again...if threatened with a knife in those circumstances, I'm defending myself so I go home to my wife and child. And I would most likely done a double tap to the chest and then one to the head if he failed to go down.

Didnt the legal resident have the same right to deffend himself against the unknown illegal invaders? (and yes, if the police did NOT indentify and did not comply with there warrent they were both unkown and illegal)

 

[exojam]

They apparently didn't when they failed to knock and announce. Someone dropped the ball on that one. However, that doesn't take away the FACT, he came at them with a knife. You need to separate that from the rest and take each part as its own entity. The shoot isn't automatically bad because the entry wasn't good. This isn't murder or even friggin close. And I'll say it again. I would have done the same if threatened with a knife. How's that cake?

I am just going to end my thoughts for now on this and just say it is flat out sad that you feel that this was a good shot. Never mind they did not follow the warrent as they should and than lied about it. Coming into a man's castle at 04:00 or 04:30 (whichever it was) and kills the guy who has the right to defend his proprerty and life.

Since you feel it is a good shoot and would do the same to make it home to your wife and kids, standing up for the "thin blue line", I hope you are never a cop in my town and you should maybe think of another line of work.

 

[dcmdon]

INAL... BUT... Wouldnt this all fall under the same concept of 'fruit of the poisonous tree'?
if they entered the house ILLEGALY by not following the warrent (which would have allowed them legal access) all actions taken by them would also be illegal and they should not be considered 'police' but random people breaking into someones house.

This case shouldnt be any diffent then if someone broke into a guys house and then shot him and claimed 'self defence' becuase the home owner was 'potentialy' armed.

Correct. But apparently it didn't matter.

- - - Updated - - -

Didnt the legal resident have the same right to deffend himself against the unknown illegal invaders? (and yes, if the police did NOT indentify and did not comply with there warrent they were both unkown and illegal)

Yes he did. The legalities center around what a reasonable person would believe.

The justification for self defense is not based in reality. Its based on what a "reasonable person" would perceive.

This goes for both the LE home invaders and the homeowner. Of course the game is rigged for the LE. But if the homeowner reasonably perceives he is the victim of a home invasion, he has both an ethical and legal right to respond to the aggression.

One sad commentary on the guy in TX being tried for killing a cop is that he's black. The criminal justice system, especially down south is not exactly color blind. I suspect that if the same team kicked in a door in a nice neighborhood and one of them was killed by a white middle class homeowner with a wife and kids in the house, things would go differently. Its not fair. But its real.

And we are seeing more of these kinds of raids against "nice families". The mere presence of a firearm on a state's records or a carry permit is often used as justification for a late night no knock raid.

Don

 

[Bfatz]

Love to see those stats on the bread delivery dying on the job.

I have stated anything that became a police officer to kick ass?? I just agreed that I would shoot a guy threatening my life with a knife. Clearly your ready to shoot anyone that walks in your door at 4am. So good luck with that when your faced with that decision. You better be ready to articulate you life or the lives of you family were in danger.

If I were your CO, I would have you pulled in for an evaluation...but then you would whine to the Union rep " He's picking on me " pump out that chicken little chest of yours and say " Do you know who I am "...you have a very large Hero complex in your demeanor. Actually you come across as a Punk with a gun, Badge and permission to do as you please. Don't think for one moment none of us here would not defend ourselves against you as well. But then again many of us here don't posses a Captain America Uniform like you do.

 

[ACK495]

Work related deaths are work related deaths.

A delivery driver has more chance of dying while working than a cop. That is indisputable.

I don't have time to look for deliver drivers killed. But you may not want to go there. This job category
includes pizza delivery drivers who die often. Just google "pizza delivery murdered".

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, out of 4,609 fatal work injuries recorded in the United States in 2011, 759 of those deaths were among driver/sales workers and truck drivers. But this doesn't give the labor pool that drives those numbers so a rate is impossible to determine.

None the less, 17% of all workplace fatalities happen to drivers.

I'm not trying to diminish what you do. I'll be the first to admit that I couldn't do what you do.
But lets not puff it up to make it into something its not.

Its not combat. Somehow the term "peace officer" morphed into "law enforcement officer".

Another cop friend was a prison guard before he became a cop. He said that was the toughest job he's ever had. Much harder than being a cop.

Something also not in the stat but I'll find it is the majority of cops who die in traffic incidents were just on routine patrol. They were not racing to an emergency.

This means that if you rally care about "making it home at night", you will stop driving like cops drive and obey traffic laws when your lights and/or siren are not on.

If I had a dollar for every time I saw a CT state trooper go by me at 90 right around shift change I could buy us a couple of beers and we could debate this in person.

Thanks for keeping it civil. ***edit**oops I wrote this before I read your post suggesting I'm paranoid.

You may not know this, but people have had their LTCs pulled and have been prosecuted based on things they have said on this forum. So its not paranoia. Martha and her henchmen/women do troll this forum. Another indisputable fact.

I was only going on based on your statement that a bread delivery (specifically) person's job is more dangerous as police officers. I would disagree based on the profession and the situations were are subjected too, but if the numbers support your argument than I'm wrong.

You are absolutely right that most officers die in traffic accidents more than by getting shot or assaulted in other ways. When most officers spend that much time, in and around vehicles, that's bound to be the case.

So you say a CT trooper drives like a bat out of hell at shift change. I would agree thats pretty common with troopers here in MA too. Of course I care about making it home, but it's unfair to group all police as traffic violators when you saw a couple, maybe the same, trooper, doing it. Just my opinion.

I feel like I have kept it civil. That statement about the listening devices in the cheese, is sort of tongue and cheek. That Direct TV commercial with Rob Lowe playing the paranoid guy cracks me up. But sometimes when people make comments around forums, it makes me realize, that person does exists and is probably on the other side of the keyboard sometimes.

I think people have labeled me as a JBT unfairly because I am defending the one officer's actions to defend himself and his brother officers next to him, when he felt like he was it necessary to use deadly force. All the other actions of that SWAT I don't agree with or defend. As I have previously stated over and over again.

 

[ACK495]

INAL... BUT... Wouldnt this all fall under the same concept of 'fruit of the poisonous tree'?
if they entered the house ILLEGALY by not following the warrent (which would have allowed them legal access) all actions taken by them would also be illegal and they should not be considered 'police' but random people breaking into someones house.

This case shouldnt be any diffent then if someone broke into a guys house and then shot him and claimed 'self defence' becuase the home owner was 'potentialy' armed.

I thought the same thing too..something we are always mindful of is the fruits of a poisonous tree. Certainly this is what happens in a lot of case when the search or stop is bad. But again, the appellate court felt that no jury would find the officer guilty based on the circumstances. Yes they failed to knock and announce but it was stated that they did announce who they were and their presence once they were inside the residence.

 

[Klaus]

No knock warrants do have a place in warrant services where the element of surprise is crucial if there is a threat of guns

Suspect might have a gun? Better scare the shit out of him in the middle of the night. That'll keep us safe.

 

[ACK495]

If I were your CO, I would have you pulled in for an evaluation...but then you would whine to the Union rep " He's picking on me " pump out that chicken little chest of yours and say " Do you know who I am "...you have a very large Hero complex in your demeanor. Actually you come across as a Punk with a gun, Badge and permission to do as you please. Don't think for one moment none of us here would not defend ourselves against you as well. But then again many of us here don't posses a Captain America Uniform like you do.

That's too bad you feel that way without actually knowing me at all. You sound like a typical keyboard commando that offers no insight to the conversation just spewing you clear hate and dislike for laws you don't agree with and with those that enforce them.

 

[ACK495]

Suspect might have a gun? Better scare the shit out of him in the middle of the night. That'll keep us safe.

Threat of a gun present is one major reason to do a no knock at 0400. Its not meant for your safety, as you lie safe and sound in your bed at that hour. It's meant for ours.

 

[ACK495]

I've got to be honest though guys. I think we've exhausted all reasonable discussion and banter regarding this topic matter. So I'm done with this thread.

I clearly expressed how I feel about the entire subject matter and so have you all. Ultimately at the end of the day, we will never change each other's opinions or how we feel about each other.

I'll still always be a Captain America wanna be, hiding behind my gun and badge. And to me, some of you guys will always be tin foil hat wearing cop haters. [emoji6] And I'm fine with that. Hopefully our paths will never have to cross.

 

[mattyw]

I go around my neighbors houses with my gun drawn and enter their house unannounced all the time, good to know if they come at me now I can legally shoot them dead

 

[todd c]

this thread just tells me i need to invest in stronger doors and more ammo. welcome to the new america where people can kick in your door shoot you and claim self defence and win in our corrupt legal system.

 

[Ringworm]

Coming soon: Mandatory anal cavity searches to protect your freedom from the terrorists.

Lots of fruits and vegetables before-hand.....f**kers

- - - Updated - - -

For all those reasons my answer it is it doesn't matter. Sheath or no sheath. It's still a knife and the sheath is easily removed.

You keep getting caught on the "in your home" thing and "not invited". They had a search warrant signed by a judge or magistrate. Guess what...we're now invited like it or not. And 99% of all raids are the persons home. Doesn't give you the right to come at police officers with a knife... Even in your own home. I can clearly tell you dislike police but its not justifiable self defense anymore.

Is that a serious analogy? Agree or disagree they had a signed search warrant!

-1 statist bootlicker......

 

[mattyw]

Threat of a gun present is one major reason to do a no knock at 0400. Its not meant for your safety, as you lie safe and sound in your bed at that hour. It's meant for ours.

if it was meant for your safety you wouldn't be executing no knock raids over bags of plants.

A homeowner has a right to be safe in their home, innocent until proven guilty or shot dead by the enforcement branch of revenue collection just doing their job and trying to get home safe

give me a break

 

[mattyw]

I've got to be honest though guys. I think we've exhausted all reasonable discussion and banter regarding this topic matter. So I'm done with this thread.

I clearly expressed how I feel about the entire subject matter and so have you all. Ultimately at the end of the day, we will never change each other's opinions or how we feel about each other.

I'll still always be a Captain America wanna be, hiding behind my gun and badge. And to me, some of you guys will always be tin foil hat wearing cop haters. [emoji6] And I'm fine with that. Hopefully our paths will never have to cross.

I don't hate cops, I hate cops like you, and I imagine plenty of cops do too. It comforts me that I believe that the decisions your mindset will lead you to make will put you in your place someday.

 

[todd c]

I don't hate cops, I hate cops like you, and I imagine plenty of cops do too. It comforts me that I believe that the decisions your mindset will lead you to make will put you in your place someday.

you mean paid vacation

 

[Bfatz]

That's too bad you feel that way without actually knowing me at all. You sound like a typical keyboard commando that offers no insight to the conversation just spewing you clear hate and dislike for laws you don't agree with and with those that enforce them.

That's too bad you feel that way without actually knowing me at all and Don't preach law to me Son, I know the law, you only know what you've been brain washed into thinking. If you knew anything about Law you would not say the crap you've said in this thread. And yes, I'm a Key board commando, this from a guy who says he will shoot you on the spot, double tap...The Hypocrisy. Then Captain America goes on to make a standing threat that he hopes our paths never cross. I'm so scared I don't know whether to live or die.

 

[StevieP]

Love to see those stats on the bread delivery dying on the job.

I have stated anything that became a police officer to kick ass?? I just agreed that I would shoot a guy threatening my life with a knife. Clearly your ready to shoot anyone that walks in your door at 4am. So good luck with that when your faced with that decision. You better be ready to articulate you life or the lives of you family were in danger.

Same to you.

 

[mattyw]

Same to you.

guy is ready to shoot anyone that comes at him with a knife but can't understand why someone would go at someone breaking in their house at 4am with guns...

the **** world is this?

 

[exojam]

this thread just tells me i need to invest in stronger doors and more ammo. welcome to the new america where people can kick in your door shoot you and claim self defence and win in our corrupt legal system.

I have been thinking of the same thing in regards to doors. I mean because they have never went to the wrong house and have the home owner come out in a body bag.