-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
Considering my first SBR. Am I missing anything?
- Thread starter LT1MCSS
- Start date
- Status
Parker Duofold
NES Member
Read the FAQ in this section on Short Barreled Rifles. This section "The AWB does not effect SBRs in MA argument."
On the other stuff, I wouldn't have the lower engraved until my tax stamp was approved.
With the trust you can eFile your application.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to read more into the AWB stuff but after a quick read it seems more like a grey area based on how the MA law is written. The safe route is to abide by the AWB rules imo but because of how MA defined a rifle and only references a rifle makes it a grey area. Good tip on the engraving. I wouldn't have it engraved till it was approved anyway. I was putting that more of a "step in the process." I would still need to find a place to do it.
Last edited:
you're right on the 5320s, and yes they can be filed for a year.
i agree with do not engrave it until you get the stamp. if it's wrong you're gonna feel like a total ******* with a ****ed up lower.
don't worry about the AWB. make me proud and rock evil shit.
make sure your form is 100% if you e-file. they don't do corrections, it's either right or wrong. also include your LTC, some examiners seem to have an issue with folks who don't, yet other guys said they didn't have problems. it's just the "this is legal to own in my state" thing. YMMV.
re: markings...
my lower reads: ATILLA TRUST
ATILLA CITY, NH.
i agree with do not engrave it until you get the stamp. if it's wrong you're gonna feel like a total ******* with a ****ed up lower.
don't worry about the AWB. make me proud and rock evil shit.
make sure your form is 100% if you e-file. they don't do corrections, it's either right or wrong. also include your LTC, some examiners seem to have an issue with folks who don't, yet other guys said they didn't have problems. it's just the "this is legal to own in my state" thing. YMMV.
re: markings...
my lower reads: ATILLA TRUST
ATILLA CITY, NH.
when you upload your documents when you efile, do not forget to add a copy of your MA LTC. But yeah rock a FH if you want. Your going through the trouble of doing this, put what you want. Im sporting an AAC black out 18t on the end of mine.
The only discrepancy in the marking I see is they said they no longer allow abbreviations which sucks. I'm sure I'll use my last name, but my last name is pretty long (9 characters). I at least my city name is short. I read through a post here last night and found about 4 or so places that would be decent to engrave the lower. Two were in MA, but not local to me, one was in Nashua, and another called Ident someone used. I was also considering where to engrave the lower. I see to the left and right of the trigger, under the lower, is a popular spot. I like that area because it's out of the way, you don't really see it. One of the things I considered on this build was an billet milled lower. Seeing how most of those have built in trigger guards that area wouldn't be possible. The bottom of the trigger guard itself on one of those would be a decent area. I mocked up the size of the engraving and it may just fit depending on if there is any tooling space required.
Make sure you print the forms double sided. I was lucky and the examiner did it for me on a copier when I ****ed up.
Also gonna plug Jacks machine shop on the south shore when its time for engraving.
Read up on the AWB and make a decision from there. I think there is a strong argument to be made in favor of the AWB not applying to SBRs in MA, but its not so clear cut in the sense that there is no explicit exemption in writing, rather an SBR doesnt fit the Massachusetts definition of a rifle which is a pre-requisite to being subject to the AWB as it pertains to rifles.
Mike
Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
Also gonna plug Jacks machine shop on the south shore when its time for engraving.
Read up on the AWB and make a decision from there. I think there is a strong argument to be made in favor of the AWB not applying to SBRs in MA, but its not so clear cut in the sense that there is no explicit exemption in writing, rather an SBR doesnt fit the Massachusetts definition of a rifle which is a pre-requisite to being subject to the AWB as it pertains to rifles.
Mike
Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
ATF wants exactly what your trust name is, so if your trust is NAME TRUST on the document, NAME TRUST must be engraved in full on the lower.
fortunately for me my trust is a four letter name. no biggie here.
fortunately for me my trust is a four letter name. no biggie here.
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
Why do you need a trust for one rifle? Can't get PD sign off? Jack.
They can, but if they wont a trust offers a work around. Also trusts can efile, speeding up the process. Finally multiple trustees can use the gun if the trust is setup right... so my wife could bring the sbr to the range without me for example. I just went the pd route, however.
Mike
Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
Mike
Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
No obligation to use your last name. Lots of folks use initials when naming their trust, and therefore when engraving. Hardly takes up any room at all.
To answer some of the question why a trust with only 1 gun? Well, someone already answered that. This is my first SBR. That doesn't mean there won't be more. I waited a long time mostly because I was afraid of the paperwork. It was intimidating but now that I'm reading through it honestly doesn't seem so bad. The wait also turned me off but the current turn around time is much better.
I also like the idea I can add someone else to the trust. I think this is a good thing, like a will. I plan on adding my father to the trust. He would never take it without me but if anything ever happened to me at least he could have it. Then like others have said, you do have the ability to e-file.
As for the name, I haven't decided. I should have that all done by this weekend. From what I read the only benefit to a last name is it just makes it easier to identify you as the person who owns the gun. Then again, keeping the paperwork with the rifle should make it obvious since my name would be on it. If i recall from what I read as well you only have to provide the paperwork to an ATF agent if ever asked which is unlikely but I could be wrong on that.
I had the basics down, this week I have just been looking into all the little technicalities and things I might have missed. Like I mentioned above. At first I was really intimidated with the paperwork, just nervous I would make a mistake. But it doesn't seem all that bad now. I'm actually pretty excited for a new project.
I also like the idea I can add someone else to the trust. I think this is a good thing, like a will. I plan on adding my father to the trust. He would never take it without me but if anything ever happened to me at least he could have it. Then like others have said, you do have the ability to e-file.
As for the name, I haven't decided. I should have that all done by this weekend. From what I read the only benefit to a last name is it just makes it easier to identify you as the person who owns the gun. Then again, keeping the paperwork with the rifle should make it obvious since my name would be on it. If i recall from what I read as well you only have to provide the paperwork to an ATF agent if ever asked which is unlikely but I could be wrong on that.
I had the basics down, this week I have just been looking into all the little technicalities and things I might have missed. Like I mentioned above. At first I was really intimidated with the paperwork, just nervous I would make a mistake. But it doesn't seem all that bad now. I'm actually pretty excited for a new project.
Last edited:
SemiAutoSam
Banned
I thought about doing this also but opted for a homebuilt from 80% lower pistol.
IE: no tax stamp no federal nfa rules to worry about but i still get a short fun ar15 to blast with and if i ad a serial # i can add it to my ccw.
I know plenty about title II weapons as I held a 01 FFL and 03 SOT many years ago... but knowing what I do about the federal laws and the BATFE I will never own another NFA weapon or hold FFL or any other lisence again... look up lisence in blacks 4th edition... and learn.
IE: no tax stamp no federal nfa rules to worry about but i still get a short fun ar15 to blast with and if i ad a serial # i can add it to my ccw.
I know plenty about title II weapons as I held a 01 FFL and 03 SOT many years ago... but knowing what I do about the federal laws and the BATFE I will never own another NFA weapon or hold FFL or any other lisence again... look up lisence in blacks 4th edition... and learn.
Last edited:
BY money in the bank you you referring to the money to fund your trust?
I assume you know this, but funding your trust has nothing to do with money. It simply means assigning something to the trust. If you're going to Form 1 an SBR, you can simply assign the lower to the trust and the trust is then funded.
Oh ok, I see a lot of people did it with money. In some cases it was just a dollar and they assign the serial number of the dollar to the trust. I'm kinda learning all this as I go but I'll have a better idea next week. I'm hoping my trust stuff is done by next weekend if not sometime during the following week.
No, trust is funded solely by firearms. Not getting a separate trust account, as it is not needed and doesn't make sense in my situation. Bank fees would render it useless soon enough.
Money in the bank is to pay for stamp.
I also hired a lawyer for my trust. The extra cost was well worth it to me, as my situation is unique. My lawyer was great; expeditious, reasonably priced and answered all my questions promptly and in laymen's terms.
Not clear if you plan on using an existing complete lower or going to assemble one yourself, but you may want to build the lower and make sure everything works OK with a standard upper before sending in the paperwork and dropping $$ on a tax stamp. Would suck to go through all the time and trouble just to find out that there is a defect with the receiver or you accidentally screw something up during assembly, ending up with a $200 paperweight.
I'm going to go with a stripped billet lower on this build. It's going to be one of these too. I'm leaning towards the Midwest PX because its a little cheaper and the magwells are a little cleaner without all the billboards. Midwest PX is also a dealer on this forum. I also prefer the more squared off trigger guards on these as opposed to the rounded ones that you see on say Seekins.
Midwest PX Gen2
http://midwestpx.com/product_info.php?cPath=92_147&products_id=851
ECM 50-1
http://www.ecmguns.net/#!ecm-50-1-product-images/cngs
dcmdon
NES Member
I have not yet read this entire thread, but I will.
Managing SBRs and their ability to go out of state is a piece of cake once you get the hang of it.
I have photocopies of nearly completed 5320s for all my MGs and SBRs containing all the relevant info, mfg, barrel length, total length etc. Everything except for my signature and dates. Every year, I put in a new date and sign it, then mail them out.
It takes me about 5 minutes and $1 a year to submit all of them.
Managing SBRs and their ability to go out of state is a piece of cake once you get the hang of it.
I have photocopies of nearly completed 5320s for all my MGs and SBRs containing all the relevant info, mfg, barrel length, total length etc. Everything except for my signature and dates. Every year, I put in a new date and sign it, then mail them out.
It takes me about 5 minutes and $1 a year to submit all of them.
dcmdon
NES Member
The purpose of having a separate firearms trust is to segregate any liability. If you have a house in a trust and your guns in the same trust, they are the same fictional entity. A person injured in the home could go after the trusts other assets.
By setting up multiple fictional entities (Trust, LLC, whatever) you can segregate your liability. Shoot, I created trust solely to own single semi-automatic firearms banned by the 2013 CT AWB. These are not transferable by normal means. But if a rifle is its own trust, you can effect a legal transfer by making someone else a trustee and writing yourself out as a trustee.
The wonderful thing about a trust is that once you have paid an attorney to create one, you can create more simply by finding and replacing the name of the trust with a new name and having it notarized.
No filing fees, no yearly costs.
One other thing. I recently spoke to my Atty about setting up a trust for other purposes. The primary goal was to segregate liability. He told me that revocable trusts are not great as far as protecting your personal assets because courts have ordered settlors to revoke the trust.
He recommended either a LLC or an IRrevocable trust. There are ups and downs to each. The trust flies under the radar with no fees and no governmental filings other than the requirement to file a tax return for the irrevocable trust under a new EIN. That was more hassle than I wanted, so we did the LLC. LLCs are searchable on state databases, and there is a yearly maintenance cost, but a LLC can be handled as part of your personal income taxes.
Obviously don't take my word for this. Talk to an attorney and/or CPA.
Don
Thats a good tip I actually am not going to go the trust route this time around. I was able to get the PD to sign off on this one. Unfortunately the detective that does the prints was out of his office so I need to wait on the print cards but with any luck it should be in the mail this week. I figure it will be about a 4-6 week turn around. Hopefully everything goes smooth them I will do what you did with the 5320-20
What do you use for out of state addresses? A friends address or gun club or something?
This is a great idea!
dcmdon
NES Member
You have just illustrated one other benefit of a trust. No need to wait for anyone or anything. Fill out the Form 1, include a copy of the trust, and mail it off. After you do 3 or 4, it will take you all of 10 minutes to complete Form 1 from beginning to in the envelope ready to ship.
Its not just the no LE signoff. Its no prints, no picture, no nothing.
Don
- Status
