WTF.Our pay is being cut by 43% in 17 days. Money is an object.
Best of luck with that, I'm sorry.
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WTF.Our pay is being cut by 43% in 17 days. Money is an object.
I would re-allocate funds to maintain operations as best as possible. Right now the agency is increasing spending on ammo but reducing the amount of agents on the line and reducing the amount of gas we can put in our trucks when we are on the line. Manpower and fuel are far more critical to operations than ammo.
No, but I do know that money is an object. Our sector's fuel and maintenance budget was just cut by 70%. Our pay is being cut by 43% in 17 days. Money is an object.
The main point is based on current training usage DHS has purchased enough ammo for 75 years of training.
They're clearly not buying it for training.
That sux big time. I hope that they can figure out a way to reduce the impact and that you can make it to the next fiscal year without going broke.
That really sux.
WTF.
Best of luck with that, I'm sorry.
Hague Convention, actually.This was a purchase by DHS not DoD so I'm not sure if Geneva Convention rules apply within our own borders or for agencies not engaged in war/armed conflict with other countries.
No, but I do know that money is an object. Our sector's fuel and maintenance budget was just cut by 70%. Our pay is being cut by 43% in 17 days. Money is an object.
The concern is appreciated. We have our own tinfoil theories within the agencies as to what's going to happen. Right now everyone is pretty convinced that the goal is to make things very unpleasant for employees so those near the top of the payscale that are eligible for retirement but not yet at the age of mandatory retirement will just call it quits. This would have the same effect as layoffs without the political cost of actually laying people off.
Is that mostly from reduced overtime, or are you also facing a once a week furlough day like DARPA/DoD civilian agencies?
Same reason The President didn't release his documentation until the crazies had made themselves looks as foolish as possible before debunking it?What I don't get is if the math is as simple as Pappy points out, why doesn't DHS respond and put this whole damn debate to rest? I can't see any upside to letting the speculation continue.
It mostly comes from de-certification for overtime. Right now we have 2 hours of overtime built into our shifts to cover shift changes and processing arrest/booking paperwork. Those hours aren't paid at a true OT rate, though, since they're built in (more like time and a quarter). But we're also being furloughed one day every other week. We're also losing FLSA coverage somehow, but I haven't figured out how that will work yet. Ultimately, the result is going from 100 hours per payperiod to 72 hours per payperiod, plus losing a few categories of premium pay.
My wife and I should weather the paycut without too much heartache, but the bigger issue in my mind is the fact that the loss of those 2 hours of overtime means that there will be about 1 hour and 45 minutes between each shift where there are zero agents on the border. These gaps will take place at the same times, three times a day, every single day. Soooooo, yeah, pretty much wide open borders.
Good luck with this I have been through several RIFs but survived. What you say about pushing the ones at the top of the pay scale is a tried and true approach that has worked for years (they must teach that at big goverment managers training school). I worked for the feds at one time (not a LEO) and that’s where I really learned to hate big and small government (yes folks small gov sucks just as bad). Contrary to what a lot of posters on this forum like to maintain a lot of federal employees are hardworking folks in a shitty system who care about constitutional rights. I got out because I could not stand the politics and the PC crap. I've done alright but I feel for some of my buddies that stayed in.
Just curious you are in AZ, are you a NE transplant or do you just enjoy posting on this forum because we are so intellectually stimulating?
Just going off of what the article said... typical article doesn't break it down completely... Thanks for the clarification.False FLETC, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center uses 15-20 million per year. That's just the academy for Federal LEOs. Once they get to their agencies, they do their own training there. Also, ICE(Immigration and Customs Enforcement) is an agency within DHS. So, yeah, DHS is going to be giving some of the ammo to ICE. Let me repost something that I already posted on this forum. It's a breakdown of the number of training rounds for DHS:
The 15 million per year was JUST for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, or FLETC. That's basically the academy for Federal agents. Training goes on at many more locations than that. And anyway, FLETC actually claims to use about 20 million rounds per year when everything is said and done.
Let's look at a rough breakdown of the numbers.
1,600,000,000 rounds. How many years is that for? I haven't been able to find out, but I've seen previous purchases claimed to be for 5 years. So, lets say 5 years.
So now we have 320,000,000 per year.
Remove the 20,000,000 for FLETC and we are left with 300,000,000 rounds per year for all of DHS.
DHS has
Homeland Security Investigations(special agents for ICE) : 8,500 agents
Border Patrol : 21,444 agents
Secret Service: 4,400 agents
Coast Guard: 41,873 active and 8,100 reserves
Total, we have 84,317 personnel that need to stay proficient with their firearms. That's NOT including all the uniformed police for ICE and the Secret Service. That's also not including the small number of special agents in the inspector general offices of the other agencies.
Broken down, that 300,000,000 rounds for a year divided by 84,317 gives us:
3,558 rounds per year to train with. Shooters who train regularly know that while this certainly isn't a pittance, it's not a massive amount either. It's definitely not super alarming or outrageous.
The Coast Guard used to be under Department of Transportation, and would be folded into Department of Defense during times of war. After 9/11, they were brought into Department of Homeland Security. Additionally, they're mission has expanded substantially and some coasties are actually classified as FLEO's, complete with LEOSA coverage and everything.Just going off of what the article said... typical article doesn't break it down completely... Thanks for the clarification.
Question:
I thought the Coast Guard was covered under the DOD since it is considered a branch of the Military? So wouldn't they get FMJ just like the rest of the military through military supply?
Also, Reserves do NOT shoot unless it is a part of their rating (mos / specialty)... I would guestimate that half of the Coast Guard shooting would still be an over estimate.
The concern is appreciated. We have our own tinfoil theories within the agencies as to what's going to happen. Right now everyone is pretty convinced that the goal is to make things very unpleasant for employees so those near the top of the payscale that are eligible for retirement but not yet at the age of mandatory retirement will just call it quits. This would have the same effect as layoffs without the political cost of actually laying people off.
This. I am sick and tired of people here saying ooooh, it's for training. BULLSHIT. Lets see, who here uses hollow point ammo for practice except for once in a while and to make sure your gun cycles it properly? Thought so. Now , how can DHS justify letting violent illegals, drunk drivers etc out of prison due to ...wait for it....CUTS....well here's an idea...stop buying so many bullets. How is that for critical thinking?
Regarding the 750 rounds/quarter, that seemed pretty high to me, so I just re-checked my record book. That number that I originally posted (3510) also included the firearms training at the academy, which was 3 times a week rather than just once a quarter. So that artificially inflated the quarterly average. I feel like an ass for not catching that earlier. I just looked at my total round count and didn't pay attention to the dates. I swear I wasn't trying to be misleading in any way. Right now for FY13 I'm averaging 336 rounds per quarter, excluding off duty shooting.
I know for a fact they use hollow point for training, and I am not a Federal Agent
Since an investigation into the events following an assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan showed that a federal agent missed the shooter because of the difference in ballistics between his training ammunition (.38 Special Wad-cutter) and duty ammunition (.357 magnum semi-jacketed hollow point) it has been policy for federal agencies to train/qualify with their carry ammunition.
This was a purchase by DHS not DoD so I'm not sure if Geneva Convention rules apply within our own borders or for agencies not engaged in war/armed conflict with other countries.