Concealed to/from range with restricted LTC (Boston)

[Friendly D]

Just curious about a few rules regarding local laws - if anyone has any thoughts or advice, I'd welcome it.

I'm currently waiting for my LTC-A (might be another few weeks) to arrive in the mail and was curious about legal transport methods, as the wording of the laws is a little vague.

With a restricted (sport) LTC-A, I am limited to carry while engaged in sport.

1) What certifies as 'sport'? Specifically, does this mean only en route to my designated target range? Moreover, the rule of having to belong to a club in Boston was rescinded - so with this restricted license if I had no club membership, do my firearms become little more than expensive paperweights?

2) If I am on the way to my club (signed up at BRP, live in Boston), can I carry concealed on the car ride there? On my walk to my car? Am I forbidden CC period?


I'm not trying to avoid the law, or be in any violation - but want to know how I am expected to safely carry & transport a firearm. Any thoughts?

 

[bhmax16]

You're forbidden, period, except for on your own property you may carry. So around your house or in your yard is fine. You must have the pistol in a locked container or in the trunk of your vehicle when driving to the range

 

[depicts]

Friendly D, welcome to the forum.

I envy you and your new interest in guns. It's a never ending trip, and it's great to see it through young eyes like yours. You have a lot of bewildering laws and habits to learn, especially here in Massachusetts. Keep asking questions and check your source. You have a long, but enviable road ahead. *S*

 

[Kevlar]

You're forbidden, period, except for on your own property you may carry. So around your house or in your yard is fine. You must have the pistol in a locked container or in the trunk of your vehicle when driving to the range

That is not necessarily true, as some COPs allow CC to and from the range (or while hiking, etc.). The only person who can answer the OP's question definitively (and the only opinion that matters) is his/her COP.

 

[TonyDedo]

The chief of police of your town is the only one who can answer that question. He put the restriction on your license, ergo it's his definition.

It's not a law, so you can't examine the fine print and find loopholes or exceptions. In fact, you're probably not going to find the definition of your restriction written down anywhere.

However, for most towns that issue restricted LTCs, the definition of "sport" means "range use only, absolutely no conceal carry, period."

My license was issued in Watertown, and the licening offer delivered the definition of my restriction via lecture, in which he told me I could not transport my guns outside of my house unless they were locked in the trunk, and I was traveling directly to and from the range. No stops, no detours, do not pass go, do not collect $200. YMMV.

That is not necessarily true, as some COPs allow CC to and from the range (or while hiking, etc.). The only person who can answer the OP's question definitively (and the only opinion that matters) is his/her COP.

I'd want a signed letter from the COP, or some sort of documentation, before I carried with a restricted license. The last thing I want to do is be arguing with a cop from another jurisdiction, saying "but he said it's okay."

 

[RichM]

I believe that a "Sporting" restriction could also allow carry of a concealed handgun while hunting or backpacking, as long as you are not in an area where carry is prohibited.

 

[TonyDedo]

I believe that a "Sporting" restriction could also allow carry of a concealed handgun while hunting or backpacking, as long as you are not in an area where carry is prohibited.

What do you base this 'belief' on?

 

[WayneWong]

Sporting generally refers to activities such as camping, hiking, recreation, target and hunting. The definition is not found in the law. The definition may vary among jurisdictions which is especially a problem if your issuer meant one thing and the environmental officer thinks it's something else. The word "carry" is another problem because to some it means "carry loaded on your person" and to others it means "carry unloaded with you" similar to "transport." The best advice as has been offered here is ask your licensing authority. Obtain a written answer if possible, otherwise document your conversation as best you can and keep it with you when you have your firearms. If you end up in court, it will to be very costly to prove your innocence.

I would hope that if you were out in the woods hiking or fishing you would be covered. Most people would agree there are rabid and predatory animals in the wilderness. Concealed means concealed. Concealed is good and deep concealment is better. But consider you aren't likely to get any play from a trooper who discovers you are carrying on 128 on your way to your destination.

 

[mbz4ever]

its all up to your issuing LEO. in my town i was told by my LEO when i had my LTC A restricted to Hunting & Target that i should carry loaded on myself while in transit to the range or hunting activities and i can stop for lunch coffee or dinner. His words were - that he prefer my firearm to be under my immediate control while in transit.
so in my town it should be no problem but im not sure about Boston. You should check with COP or issuing LEO.

but this may help.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ul-information-about-a-restricted-LTC-Class-A

 

[yanici]

This thread probably has the OP more confused than when he first posted it. All I can add, to this mixup, is don't carry to the range without the Chief's written, signed permission on your person. It ain't worth the chance of getting caught and license revoked and maybe arrested.

 

[bhmax16]

I don't agree that you should rely solely on what your issuing officer tells you, because if you are caught in a jam in another town do you really think the officer you're dealing with in another town is going to care if your chief said you could carry in your town of residence when stopping for coffee on the way to the range or hunting? If this was really the case it would make all the restrictions on our licenses moot, as they would have a different bearing on you depending on what town you happened to be carrying in that day. It would get to the point where "oh...the restriction on my license means I can do so and so in one town, but I can't do so and so in another town." The restriction must hold the same bearing state wide. Correct me if I'm misinformed or not reading into this correctly

 

[yanici]

KISS. Just don't carry it. Transport it locked and unloaded and you will be perfectly safe. This whole thread shows why H2259 needs to get passed. It's futile to try to cover all the maybes!

 

[CubJ3]

I too have a class A "Sporting" restriction, and I can't help but laugh at the obvious contradiction as the license clearly says......."License to Carry Firearms". I'm convinced that MA gun laws are purposely vague to keep the "gotcha" factor alive and well, an attribute obscenely prevalent in MA law.

 

[bhmax16]

I too have a class A "Sporting" restriction, and I can't help but laugh at the obvious contradiction as the license clearly says......."License to Carry Firearms". I'm convinced that MA gun laws are purposely vague to keep the "gotcha" factor alive and well, an attribute obscenely prevalent in MA law.

And you have to love how it states in M.G.L that the only holders of a Class A license may carry concealed! Then further down it gets into the licenses being subject to the restrictions imposed by the issuing PD...yet they never define what said restrictions mean. Hell makes you wonder if you had a good enough lawyer, and you had a target and hunting restriction, if you could argue that since the restriction was never defined to you by the issuing PD your "target" was any bad guy who threatened your life or that of another law abiding citizen and that's why you were carrying!

 

[daddysuperfly]

It ain't worth the chance of getting caught and license revoked and maybe arrested.

This. i'd hate to lose my license because I interpreted the law in a different way than the local LEO or State Trooper... IMHO it isn't worth the risk/hassle. how far away from the range do you live?

 

[bhmax16]

This. i'd hate to lose my license because I interpreted the law in a different way than the local LEO or State Trooper... IMHO it isn't worth the risk/hassle. how far away from the range do you live?

Agreed, however (and I do not condone ignoring the restrictions in any way) if one was to be caught it would be a misdemeanor punishable by fine (no jail time), since you do possess the firearm legally

 

[daddysuperfly]

you don't think that would come up the next time you went to renew? i'm not too familiar with that portion of the law, i'm doing my best to keep my nose clean so i don't learn first hand.

 

[Friendly D]

Wow! Thanks everyone for your thoughts - makes a guy feel welcome.
I live in JP, specifically, and (will) be shooting at BRP. Not a long trip by any means. I do love this city, but these laws are pretty tough to draw a bead on (no pun intended!)
Seems like the best bet is to play it safe and stow it away for the trip. I'll stick to CC around the house - making breakfast, cleaning the bathroom...all that dangerous stuff.
I appreciate the feedback, everyone, and welcome more if you've got it.

 

[GP89]

.....

 

[bhmax16]

I'm in JP and have a Boston LTC-A.. It specifically states "Restrictions: Sport/Target NO CONCEAL CARRY". I don't know if other cities that issue "Sport/Target" restrictions also list no conceal carry.

No it's to my understanding most towns won't specifically write no conceal carry in their restrictions though I'm sure there are a select few that do besides yours.

And Daddysuperfly, believe me even though it's only punishable by fine I'm SURE it would come up upon renewal, if you even made it that far, as the law does state that violation of the restrictions will not only be punishable by a fine, but also revocation of said license. So while no jail time...you'll lose your license and likely have a very hard time obtaining another one, if ever; which is why I stated that I don't condone trying to toy with the law. Us law abiding firearm owners need to continue to show that we are the MOST respectful citizens of the law in this state

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Wow! Thanks everyone for your thoughts - makes a guy feel welcome.
I live in JP, specifically, and (will) be shooting at BRP. Not a long trip by any means. I do love this city, but these laws are pretty tough to draw a bead on (no pun intended!)
Seems like the best bet is to play it safe and stow it away for the trip. I'll stick to CC around the house - making breakfast, cleaning the bathroom...all that dangerous stuff.
I appreciate the feedback, everyone, and welcome more if you've got it.

Does it seem like you will actually get your LTC-A? I'm just so surprised in Boston.

 

[Kevin l]

I'm in JP and have a Boston LTC-A.. It specifically states "Restrictions: Sport/Target NO CONCEAL CARRY". I don't know if other cities that issue "Sport/Target" restrictions also list no conceal carry.

If Boston is still issuing permits like they were two years ago, it will state "NO CONCEALED CARRY" right after the restriction SPORT/TARGET.

Damn... I gotta refresh my screen after I walk away for a while...

Does it seem like you will actually get your LTC-A? I'm just so surprised in Boston.

The norm if you're of age is an LTC-A. Just a castrated version.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

If Boston is still issuing permits like they were two years ago, it will state "NO CONCEALED CARRY" right after the restriction SPORT/TARGET.

and knowing Boston, they will never upgrade you on renewal?

 

[Fixxah]

I'll give you $.30/$1 when you get liscense pulled. Fair price if you ask me.

Welcome to the board.

 

[Kevin l]

and knowing Boston, they will never upgrade you on renewal?

I"ve never heard of it under the current regime. Give me a few more years, I'll let you know if I'm still here.

 

[Preachers Sheets]

I was never told if I could carry on my waist to the range so I dont. I rather not risk losing the license and just wait until the restrictions are lifted all together. A little bit of freedom now isnt worth the chance of losing alot of freedom later.

I really wish they'd lift the restrictions but they said after the first license expires (5 years) and who knows if things will change then and I cant carry at all because of the new chief. I live in Stoughton, MA. The cops are really nice, calm and dont act like your a rambo but they rather do it their way and those are the rules I have to follow. All within reason, they could of slapped me with a Class B, then a restricted Class A then a regular Class A with 5 years between each if they wanted to and they didnt. I may see the license officer after a year and see if he's willing to at least talk about lifting the restrictions.

 

[Len-2A Training]

PS, have they chosen a new chief yet in Stoughton?

 

[drgrant]

I don't agree that you should rely solely on what your issuing officer tells you, because if you are caught in a jam in another town do you really think the officer you're dealing with in another town is going to care if your chief said you could carry in your town of residence when stopping for coffee on the way to the range or hunting?

The thing is, "the other guy" is not the arbiter of whether or not you were violating the restriction. He has ZERO authority, as the restrictions are mandated and enforced by the issuing authority. Some LEO on the side of the road in some other town has no authority to revoke your license for violating a restriction. Whatever your Chief/IA says is the FINAL word. You should probably get it in writing, of course... if you can.

-Mike

 

[Preachers Sheets]

PS, have they chosen a new chief yet in Stoughton?

The search committee was picked, then they had something like 56 applicants, then they picked 30 and now they are down to 5 and 2 backup incase those 5 dont turn out.

I wish the town knew their stance on some stuff; so we could send our thoughts to the search committee.

On a side note they are planning on building more "affordable housing". I'm sure that's not going to help the gun case.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

PS, have they chosen a new chief yet in Stoughton?

No, probably no until spring. I taught a class down there this weekend and the students had a pretty good handle how the process was going.