CNN: Pilot's holsters make guns vulnerable to accidental discharge

[M1911]

I don't get it..........

Obviously the holster design is flawed if you can create the discharge situation. If the requirement is to have the weapon secured when the pilot leaves the cockpit then why would a lock box be undesirable? Is the guy carrying with the pad lock installed?

There's no place in the cockpit to install a lockbox, and doing so would require major FAA approval. So now the pilot has to lug around a heavy lock box everywhere he goes.

 

[Eta-Carinae]

It could be. A set of loops for the lock hasp would need to be built into the holster in front of the hood to hold the lock. When you get ready to leave the cockpit, put the lock hasp through the two loops. When you get back into the cockpit, remove the lock. Gun stays in the holster the entire time and the lock hasp is nowhere near the trigger guard. Downside of this approach is that if you cut through the holster somehow, then you have a functional gun.

An advantage of the current design is that even if you cut through the holster, the lock hasp is still behind the trigger, preventing the gun from being fired.

Requires a new design, but:
Increase the size of the dust cover under the recoil spring guide rod to accomodate an extension of the trigger bar large enough to accomodate hole for a lock hasp.

Hole in the frame, hole in the lock hasp, and hole in the holster line up only when the weapon is fully holstered. With a lock hasp through, weapon cannot be removed from the holster and the trigger cannot be pulled. Even if the holster is cut away, you still have a lock going through the trigger bar. Could even design a trigger disconnect.

 

[Garys]

TSA has to be one of the biggest "brain trusts" in the world . . . NOT!

Every firearms instructor will tell you to keep EVERYTHING OUT of the triggerguard on a loaded gun . . . but TSA "knows" better. Jim and Sarah Brady must be their "subject matter experts"!

LenS, you must remember TSA = Too Stupid for Arby's!

 

[terraformer]

I don't get it..........

Obviously the holster design is flawed if you can create the discharge situation. If the requirement is to have the weapon secured when the pilot leaves the cockpit then why would a lock box be undesirable? Is the guy carrying with the pad lock installed?

Because the pilots were lazy and didn't want to carry yet another box. Funny thing is they are already mandated by the FAA to carry a roller with charts, specific avionics and flight procedure manuals*. All TSA needed to do was authorize a secure version of that roller flight case and they were covered on both ends. This is just a whole steaming pile of fail.

*manuals don't go with the plane, they go with the pilots, same thing with FAs who carry their red book and even the belt buckle, air mask and PFD they use in their briefing

 

[Rob]

I have three words for the current design: re...tar...ded.

Or why not just adopt one of the many lawsuit induced pistols that have built-in locks?

....

Just another big stupid cause-more-problems-then-it-solves "solution" from TSA/Fatherland Security.

Exactly. In the next phase of arming pilots, make sure the special edition pilot gun uses microstamping, taggent inserted gunpowder, and bad-guy-only-heat-seeking bullets. With all the gunfights aboard planes nowadays, you gotta know exactly who fired what.

 

[Gabe]

Engineers know the value of idiot-proof designing. The algorithm is something like; for every possible error "X," design in error-proof "-X," so the net is "X" + "-X" = 0.

What happens when an idiot tries to make something idiot-proof?

They add error-proof "-X" to the impossible error "-X" leaving "-X" + "-X" = BOOM!



And then they steal away more of our rights.....

 

[BillO]

Because the pilots were lazy and didn't want to carry yet another box. Funny thing is they are already mandated by the FAA to carry a roller with charts, specific avionics and flight procedure manuals*. All TSA needed to do was authorize a secure version of that roller flight case and they were covered on both ends. This is just a whole steaming pile of fail.

*manuals don't go with the plane, they go with the pilots, same thing with FAs who carry their red book and even the belt buckle, air mask and PFD they use in their briefing

Not these days. All our nav charts are installed on EFB computers on board the aircraft. Those who fly older aircraft DO have Jeppesen Navigation charts. I've never heard of "specific avionics and flight procedure manuals". They sound heavy, whatever they are.

 

[M1911]

Not these days. All our nav charts are installed on EFB computers on board the aircraft. Those who fly older aircraft DO have Jeppesen Navigation charts. I've never heard of "specific avionics and flight procedure manuals". They sound heavy, whatever they are.

Jetblue does that, but I thought most of the legacy carriers still relied on paper?

 

[terraformer]

Not these days. All our nav charts are installed on EFB computers on board the aircraft. Those who fly older aircraft DO have Jeppesen Navigation charts. I've never heard of "specific avionics and flight procedure manuals". They sound heavy, whatever they are.

Isn't there a specific manual or something you need to carry? My nephew is a pilot (and GF a FA) and he says that is one of the things needed in his flight case but maybe this is outdated info. I also can't imagine my GF is required by the FAA and delta to carry a flight manual and the pilots aren't. I guess that is a good union for you. Whatever though, those cases are ubiquitous and a simple redesign could give you the vault for the gun and the space for whatever you need to carry in there.

 

[BillO]

Jetblue does that, but I thought most of the legacy carriers still relied on paper?

When I was at Northwest, we used paper Jepps, I don't know if they still do. Newer aircraft have EFIS displays with nav charts built-in. I've been flying paperless for about five years now, and don't miss lugging my flight case one bit.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cockpit

 

[M1911]

I've been traveling a bit this fall, and still see pilots lugging flight cases.

 

[clinotus]

Despite the pilots signing on to the design, you've really got to wonder why is it that no where along the line no one stated the obvious situation that holster created.

 

[icyclefar]

Despite the pilots signing on to the design, you've really got to wonder why is it that no where along the line no one stated the obvious situation that holster created.

Perhaps a little telling of their population that are using it?

Had it been brought to an NES members shoot, I'm guessing the shortcomings would have been exposed in under 30 seconds.

 

[Viper22]

No. You can't use a trigger lock on a loaded gun. Putting a trigger lock on a loaded gun would be just as stupid as locking one in that holster -- both involve putting a bar through the trigger guard.

The trigger locks I have the bar goes behind the trigger, with the rest of the triggerlock blocking access to the trigger....and if the gun is locked to the holster, shouldnt it be unloaded if its not on the pilot???

 

[M1911]

The trigger locks I have the bar goes behind the trigger, with the rest of the triggerlock blocking access to the trigger

And every single trigger lock you have came with big warnings on the package saying "DON'T USE ON A LOADED GUN!"

....and if the gun is locked to the holster, shouldnt it be unloaded if its not on the pilot???

1) Good question. It isn't clear to me if the holster is still on the pilots belt or if he has take the holster off his belt.

2) the gun is still loaded. I suspect that they don't want the pilot taking the gun out of the holster to load and unload while on the flight deck. I agree with them on that point.

 

[Viper22]

good points M1911.