Cleveland cop shoots 12 year old who was holding an Airsoft gun

[rep308]

Two reports conclude Cleveland cop was 'reasonable' in decision to shoot dead 12-year-old Tamir Rice who was carrying a toy gun

Independent findings come ahead of grand jury decision over criminal charges
Shooting was captured on surveillance footage and showed officer Timothy Loehmann shooting the 12-year-old twice in the abdomen
Tamir's family branded the findings a 'white-wash'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-police-shooting-Tamir-Rice-reasonable.html

Officer Timothy Loehmann shot Rice twice in the abdomen, seconds after his partner who also is white drove their vehicle to within 5 feet (1.5 meters) of the boy. Rice died the next day.

McGinty has said the case will go to a grand jury.

 

[GM-GUY]

They also released the report at 8PM on Saturday, with no notice or info to the family.

The pellet gun was actually an Airsoft, and the article I read states the 'orange markings were removed'. Really? by whom? when?


The family is right - the DA won't present a 'case' to the Grand Jury - they will present some facts with this report being highlighted and the video may not even be played as then it would be admissible at trial.

 

[Martlet]

PSGWSP

 

[GM-GUY]

No, but the following would be more prudent:

These are onsite errors
1) Don't pull up to within 5ft of a 'threat'
2) At least give someone a chance to drop a 'weapon' the gun was in his waistband, and the only 'reaching' that occurred was after the shot.
3) The shots occurred within seconds of pulling up - no warning, no command to freeze, just screams into the park, get out of the car, draw the weapon while exiting and fire when on target.

These are pre-errors:
1) Don't hire a guy that was fired and failed mental evals.
2) Make sure all important info from a call is passed to those on site - a 'kid' and 'fake gun' should have been radioed.



I fall back on my standard, if I did what the cop did, what happens to me? Kid in my house with a toy gun in the waistband and I shoot him - my trial would already have occurred. Badges don't grant extra rights.

 

[mac1911]

So what all these so knowledgeable folks that post here want is for the cops to ask the person that is being confronted if they have real gun or not before they are drawn down upon.

I,think the question is why are some police so,quick to draw and shoot some folks while they let some one walk around with a gun, shoot his wife a few more times and walk away with a hug? Or shoot the gun out of the hands of others vs a Centermass shot?
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-runs-wife-road-shoots-kills-child-car/
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y54aONB3dns

 

[CTpatriot]

gotta wonder if the "report" was doctored a little with the kid "not complying" to put his hands up

must have been cause all the ghetto kids i see these days walk around singing hands up dont shoot.

 

[CTpatriot]

It's not illegal to carry an Airsoft pistoil, but there's only one reason to do it-to project the perception that you are carrying a handgun.

but he was only affirming his rights to play with the police.

 

[garandman]

I don't know how toy guns are today, but when I was a kid, the orange tips were just a piece of rubber or plastic that was slid over the muzzle. It wasn't uncommon to have the tip fall off after a few days of playing with it. No intent to remove the tip, but I think most of the toy guns me or any of my friends had didn't have the orange tips after a few weeks of ownership. Anyone familiar enough with modern toy guns to know if this could still be the case?

Some have a plastic tip but on many it's paint.

The firearm manufacturers are licensing their designs to airsoft manufacturers. Many of the better ones are all metal. I won't even let my son carry his to the car in Boston without being boxed. He and his buddies can use them in the back yard but the neighbors know what's going on.

 

[CTpatriot]

I like how you all believe the cops version over the dead kid. The only person saying he reached for the gun was the cop. This after the caller said it was probably fake three times during the 911 call.

what is said to 911 has a delay before it gets to the cop on the street. add the facts up, cop is going into a possibly life threatening call, realistic fake gun involved, and 12 year old boy like most doesnt think straight.

 

[CTpatriot]

2 questions:

Who gave a 12 year old an airsoft gun to play with unsupervised?

More importantly, Who removed the orange tip?

If it was someone other than the kid, they should face manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide charges....

how much you want to bet they sue the manufacturer for easily removed tip and for the gun being too realistic.

 

[CTpatriot]

So, is there video of the shooting? That would explain what happened. Did the PO order the kid to put his hands in the air, or yell at him "do you have a gun?" or "Drop the gun!" Did the kid even understand what the police wanted? Why was a confrontation initiated? The kid obviously had not harmed anyone.

i think it would be a legitimate investigation if they got a call of a kid with a gun. If ahmed is walking down the street, with a very bulky vest attached to dead man switch, about to walk into a school, but has not harmed anyone yet, you do nothing?

 

[CTpatriot]

I met a guy (LE) a couple of years ago who got shot right though the eye by a ten year old while going through the front door of a crack house.
Anyone who thinks that some of these kids who would have been better off raised by wolves than by the dirt bags they where raised by, can't kill you just as fast as a as grown man .
Think again

http://www.wtae.com/news/local/beav...ead-after-cigarette-comment-to-teens/17708056

I'll call out crappy behavior by LE as quick as anyone, but damn it gets thick around here sometimes.
Someone makes a grab for what appears to even a trained eye a real pistol after you order them to put their hands up.
I suppose the armchair quarterbacks would use their super powers to determine it wasn't real and Kung Fu it out of their hand, all in a 16th of a second.

i guess the cop never learned he could just shoot it out of his hand.

 

[ISOTOX]

Stupid Hurts...Opinions may vary.

 

[Hoover]

So what all these so knowledgeable folks that post here want is for the cops to ask the person that is being confronted if they have real gun or not before they are drawn down upon.

PSGWSP

Pointing anything like an airsoft, pellet gun, real gun towards anyone is a quick way to get shot. Kid might have been a good kid who made a very bad movement here but that doesn't mean the cop is at fault. It's sad a kid so young is dead but his mistake was a big mistake.

I,think the question is why are some police so,quick to draw and shoot some folks while they let some one walk around with a gun, shoot his wife a few more times and walk away with a hug? Or shoot the gun out of the hands of others vs a Centermass shot?
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-runs-wife-road-shoots-kills-child-car/
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y54aONB3dns

If this kid were in Barre MA or Jaffrey NH, the cops would probably be slower to draw. This is a shlthole cleveland where it's more likely the 12 yr is a gang member, not a kid playing with an air soft. Inner city cops have a far greater threat to deal with than a rural or suburban cop. That is always an issue.

 

[rep308]

It is too much to ask for the police to get in a safe place and position and use a megaphone to shout 'Drop the gun, hands up!' before firing? It is not like it was an active shooting incidence.

 

[GM-GUY]

Along the lines of rep308:

So one of us is carrying concealed and we bend over or whatever, the gun becomes visible - do we have 2 seconds before we get shot if a LEO is there?

By some of the arguments in this thread - it would be justified.


Tinfoil area:
This can't be 'isolated' as there are many cases of this, then a coordinated effort to blame the victim. Is the police departments trying to provoke a response or are they too just pawns at the hands of DHS due to the type of training (yelling gun while firing). Just me thinking out loud.


Non-PC area:
Looking at the UCR - a case can be made.

 

[CTpatriot]

these days some cops say they can not know if a phone is a weapon to people video recording, so a balack gun with or without an orange tip can be anything. between MA and CT there have been two pellet gun DEATHS involving kids in the last year or so. some weapons are less deadly than others bur are still deadly weapons, who wants to take a 22 pellet to the head this morning, please line up.

 

[Chet0729]

I don't know how toy guns are today, but when I was a kid, the orange tips were just a piece of rubber or plastic that was slid over the muzzle. It wasn't uncommon to have the tip fall off after a few days of playing with it. No intent to remove the tip, but I think most of the toy guns me or any of my friends had didn't have the orange tips after a few weeks of ownership. Anyone familiar enough with modern toy guns to know if this could still be the case?

But when we were kids, Toy Guns looked like toy guns for the most part even without the orange tip.

 

[GM-GUY]

This was an AIRSOFT - in one of the articles it described it as a 'Gun that shoots harmless plastic pellets'

 

[Dench]

I had toy guns and probably real guns aimed at me everything I left the gate while deployed. Zero kids shot by anyone.

 

[xtry51]

I had toy guns and probably real guns aimed at me everything I left the gate while deployed. Zero kids shot by anyone.

ROE for troops far stricter than for cops. Which is pretty sad for both cases.

That said I don't let my kids run around with airsoft guns.

 

[Artifact]

Don't get me going on military roe.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Gammon]

Either way, the cop was justified.

Which reminds me. Have any of you seen the show Justified? Entertaining with lots of gun play. Streaming on Amazon Prime.

I love "Justified" the first scene of the first episode is a hoot. Kind of like "Miami Vice" meets "Deliverance".

 

[Pete85]

But when we were kids, Toy Guns looked like toy guns for the most part even without the orange tip.

I think at least a couple of the guns one of my friends had were real guns that had been permanently disabled. They looked plenty real.

 

[SalemCat]

Criminals are STUPID !

If I were one, first effin' thing I'd do is paint the tip of every firearm I own with some Dayglo Orange.

Or just buy some Orange Rubber tips. I could shoot right thru them.

 

[SalemCat]

I suspect the LEO over-reacted, but hell, I wasn't here, nor am I on any Grand Jury.

Unlike Obama, I'm not going to make a like-or-death decision on a soundbite.

 

[Dench]

I wonder if the cops going to add "incorrectly identified toy and subsequently shot small child in self defense" to his list of achievements. It would look sick on linkedIn. I would totally vouch for that achievement in the work place for him.

You know, the shit down range is real hot and heavy when you're A: not taking fire and B: have a child in front of you that you just pulled up point blank to with no stand off distance.

because you know, road side executions.

Gotta get home safe, boys!

 

[Bonesinium]

i think it would be a legitimate investigation if they got a call of a kid with a gun. If ahmed is walking down the street, with a very bulky vest attached to dead man switch, about to walk into a school, but has not harmed anyone yet, you do nothing?

Well not only was it a 12-year-old in a park with a toy not a terrorist with a suicide vest in a school, but there is a huge gap between doing nothing and immediately and without any attempt to do anything else, killing the person. Like massive. But I suppose being a massive pussy with no brain you must relay on such measures because anything else would require some tiny bit of intellegence.

 

[Chet0729]

i wonder what people would be saying if he drew the "gun" on an armed citizen and got drilled. Would it still be the poor 12 yr old. Im sure it would be quite a different rant.

 

[Dench]

i wonder what people would be saying if he drew the "gun" on an armed citizen and got drilled. Would it still be the poor 12 yr old. Im sure it would be quite a different rant.

if a citizen shot him in perceived self defense they would be sent to prison and there would be an outcry by the anti gun people to restrict CCW.

this is just another example of a protected class (the police) doing things that would get any other normal person sent to jail for decades.

if I shot a child with a fake gun preemptively I would expect to be sent straight to jail for a long time.