Cleveland cop shoots 12 year old who was holding an Airsoft gun

Obie1

Obie1

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Has there ever been a case of a criminal being caught with a real gun with a muzzle they painted orange? I've always been curious about that.
 
shadowr434 said:
According to this article, the orange tip was removed. Shooting is justified. Airsoft with orange tip removed looks way too real to not draw on the kid and wait to see if its real. Also, I can see only one reason to have that on him and that reason is to use it in robberies.
http://nypost.com/2014/11/22/cleveland-cop-shoots-child-holding-toy-gun/
Click to expand...

This isn't necessarily true, unless you mean as stated in the report. The "there is no reason he should have that" is a stupid argument. I don't need a reason to have anything. You need a reason to prevent me from having it. What I may or may not do with it isn't sufficient reason to deny my liberty.
 
Martlet said:
This isn't necessarily true, unless you mean as stated in the report. The "there is no reason he should have that" is a stupid argument. I don't need a reason to have anything. You need a reason to prevent me from having it. What I may or may not do with it isn't sufficient reason to deny my liberty.
Click to expand...

True, if we weren't talking about a 12 year old in the hood.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, all the cop haters are going off now. The kid died.
 
Mmmmm....seems to be lots of cop hate in this thread to me. Wait until someone close to you is held up at "Airsoft point", then beaten to crap, just because the people that are using the Airsoft pistol can get away with it. Then, maybe you'll get it.
Many armed robberies by juveniles (and adults for that matter), are committed with Airsoft or BB guns. It's still considered "Armed Robbery".
It's not illegal to carry an Airsoft pistoil, but there's only one reason to do it-to project the perception that you are carrying a handgun.
 
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S. Kelly said:
Mmmmm....seems to be lots of cop hate in this thread to me. Wait until someone close to you is held up at "airsoft point", then beaten to crap, just because the people that are using the airsoft pistol can get away with it. Then, maybe you'll get it.
Many armed robberies by juveniles, are committed with airsoft or BB guns. It's still considered "Armed Robbery".
Click to expand...

Not all black kids are bad...not all cops are bad...how do you tell who's who????
 
shadowr434 said:
According to this article, the orange tip was removed. Shooting is justified. Airsoft with orange tip removed looks way too real to not draw on the kid and wait to see if its real. Also, I can see only one reason to have that on him and that reason is to use it in robberies.
http://nypost.com/2014/11/22/cleveland-cop-shoots-child-holding-toy-gun/
Click to expand...

I don't know how toy guns are today, but when I was a kid, the orange tips were just a piece of rubber or plastic that was slid over the muzzle. It wasn't uncommon to have the tip fall off after a few days of playing with it. No intent to remove the tip, but I think most of the toy guns me or any of my friends had didn't have the orange tips after a few weeks of ownership. Anyone familiar enough with modern toy guns to know if this could still be the case?
 
Air soft guns without the Orange tip are indistinguishable from real guns. IMO, there's no blaming the cops here.
 
I'm not blaming anyone for anything just a quick thought.
I think most people have a understanding that the police should have better training and professionalism than what can be precieved by some events that unfold. I also believe many people think the police should be held to a higher standard.

Just a few points: LEO vs US
IF LEO thinks they have a gun or LEO is in fear of his life he can shoot someone or something.
If we or US think someone had a gun or thought our life's where in danger we are more likely to get hung for reacting.

not knowing much more about the OP details I cant comment.
One last thing......what happened to all the less than Lethal weapons? seems in the 90s these where all the rage. bean bags, rubber bullet ectect. Sad all around
 
shadowr434 said:
According to this article, the orange tip was removed. Shooting is justified. Airsoft with orange tip removed looks way too real to not draw on the kid and wait to see if its real. Also, I can see only one reason to have that on him and that reason is to use it in robberies.
http://nypost.com/2014/11/22/cleveland-cop-shoots-child-holding-toy-gun/
Click to expand...

Not true.

This looks like suicide by cop.

If he had the airsoft gun to do robberies, he'd have complied and not reached for it.

In this case I feel sorry for the cop. The cop did what he had to do.

Which balances nicely because I just started a thread that some might interpret as anti-cop.
 
Pete85 said:
I don't know how toy guns are today, but when I was a kid, the orange tips were just a piece of rubber or plastic that was slid over the muzzle. It wasn't uncommon to have the tip fall off after a few days of playing with it. No intent to remove the tip, but I think most of the toy guns me or any of my friends had didn't have the orange tips after a few weeks of ownership. Anyone familiar enough with modern toy guns to know if this could still be the case?
Click to expand...
I think then kids where kids and adults where adults.....I walked all over with my pellet guns growing up and they where not toys. Cops would just say.....don't let us catch you shooting out windows or cats!
 
mac1911 said:
I think then kids where kids and adults where adults.....I walked all over with my pellet guns growing up and they where not toys. Cops would just say.....don't let us catch you shooting out windows or cats!
Click to expand...

Thats how it was for me. I used to ride through the woods on my dirt bike with a Crossman 766 slung over myshoulder with a back pack full of tin cans.

We also had some fun in less . . rural settings. A good friend worked at the Dunkin Donuts in Guilford, CT. I used to bring my (new and much better) .22 cal Sheridan air gun over there and we'd shoot rats out behind the building.
 
Police say the officer fired two shots after the boy pulled the fake weapon from his waistband. The orange safety indicator had been removed from the barrel.

Investigators say the boy did not point the fake pistol at officers but reached for it after being told to raise his hands.
Click to expand...

So which was it? Did he reach for the gun, or did he pull the gun?

If he only reached for it, the tip of the barrel was not visible, so the orange tip would have changed nothing.
 
swatgig said:
So which was it? Did he reach for the gun, or did he pull the gun?

If he only reached for it, the tip of the barrel was not visible, so the orange tip would have changed nothing.
Click to expand...

Either way, the cop was justified.

Which reminds me. Have any of you seen the show Justified? Entertaining with lots of gun play. Streaming on Amazon Prime.
 
Pete85 said:
I don't know how toy guns are today, but when I was a kid, the orange tips were just a piece of rubber or plastic that was slid over the muzzle.
Click to expand...

My "Johnny 16" didn't have no stinkin' orange tip in the late 60's. And my trusty Pearl Handled Revolver Hop-along Cassidy Side Iron cap guns didn't neither. We shot random passers-by as we saw fit, with some doing a decent James Cagney "Awww..., you got me cop'er", even though we were Western six gun shooters.
 
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mikeyp said:
Maybe the cop was a little too quick? The 911 caller said it was probably fake http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/23/boy-fake-gun-shot/19438005/ But then again, if it was an airsoft that looked real...tough call.
Click to expand...

Easy call..

you're a cop
in a bad hood
you get a call of a kid with a gun,might be fake
you show up
kid reaches for gun

do you ?

wait until he points and shoots to see if its'real boolits he shooting at you

or

Neutralize the threat

?

For the people that say they used to ride around with guns after shool etc...

get a grip

it's apples and rocket scientists..

You were most likely in lily white neighborhoods..NOT the inner city..
 
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So kid at rec center waving gun around at people for some time without shooting anyone, caller says it is probably fake, but once the cops show up is when the kid decides now he is going to actually shoot someone? There are more factors at play here than just "kid has something that looks like a real gun" that are at play here and were known. Take them all into account. Or not, and just take the one factor (fake gun that looks real) into account. Your choice. Justifying the killing of a 12-year-old, no big deal. After all, he had a fake gun.
 
Just a fyi - it's a giant game of telephone and he said she said.

The caller says to the media that it's probably fake. Do we have that in the 911 recording?
Did the dispatcher tell the responding officers that it's probably fake?
Do we really think the officer wants to shoot a 12 year old kid, regardless of race - knowing the impending shit storm that follows when an officer discharges his weapon?
Maybe I'm giving the officer too much credit, maybe he knew about the possibility of the gun being fake. We won't know until the official report comes out or if this goes to trial.
Speculate on.
 
Bonesinium said:
So kid at rec center waving gun around at people for some time without shooting anyone, caller says it is probably fake, but once the cops show up is when the kid decides now he is going to actually shoot someone? There are more factors at play here than just "kid has something that looks like a real gun" that are at play here and were known. Take them all into account. Or not, and just take the one factor (fake gun that looks real) into account. Your choice. Justifying the killing of a 12-year-old, no big deal. After all, he had a fake gun.
Click to expand...

So would killing a 12 year old that had a real gun waving it at people be justified ?
 
I like how you all believe the cops version over the dead kid. The only person saying he reached for the gun was the cop. This after the caller said it was probably fake three times during the 911 call.
 
mac1911 said:
I'm not blaming anyone for anything just a quick thought.
I think most people have a understanding that the police should have better training and professionalism than what can be precieved by some events that unfold. I also believe many people think the police should be held to a higher standard.

Just a few points: LEO vs US
IF LEO thinks they have a gun or LEO is in fear of his life he can shoot someone or something.
If we or US think someone had a gun or thought our life's where in danger we are more likely to get hung for reacting.

not knowing much more about the OP details I cant comment.
One last thing......what happened to all the less than Lethal weapons? seems in the 90s these where all the rage. bean bags, rubber bullet ectect. Sad all around
Click to expand...

You don't use LTL when you perceive a lethal threat. Maybe a knife, maybe, but no way I'm pulling a Taser when someone pulls a 'gun'. It's not in policy or any use of force training.

edit: RE: the 911 call, doesn't mean anything if the dispatcher didn't relay that information. I'll need to hear the dispatch tapes.
 
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