Cleveland cop shoots 12 year old who was holding an Airsoft gun

Not sure if this topic has been discussed before, but this thread reminded me of a thought... What if an average guy did this instead of a cop? Say the kid drew his gat and an ordinary person shot him with his CCW? Would it be considered justified if the orange tip wasn't visible? Obviously, whether the kid in this story reached for the gun, or not won't matter because the cop will say he did and dead men (or kids) tell no tales...
 
2 questions:

Who gave a 12 year old an airsoft gun to play with unsupervised?

More importantly, Who removed the orange tip?

If it was someone other than the kid, they should face manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide charges....
 
So, is there video of the shooting? That would explain what happened. Did the PO order the kid to put his hands in the air, or yell at him "do you have a gun?" or "Drop the gun!" Did the kid even understand what the police wanted? Why was a confrontation initiated? The kid obviously had not harmed anyone.
 
weekendracer said:
I've gotten bulletins about it. Here's one story, hard to find with the mess going on:

http://www.guns.com/2014/09/08/crim...-real-rifles-painted-to-look-like-toys-video/
Click to expand...

Anyone else notice that wasn't a complete AK? And said orange tip is the thread protector shipped with barrels and ..... wait for it.... shocker ..... an AK build kit .... which is what the officer is holding. ****, I've got a red tip on a barrel right now, guess what, it's not assembled.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
2 questions:

Who gave a 12 year old an airsoft gun to play with unsupervised?

More importantly, Who removed the orange tip?

If it was someone other than the kid, they should face manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide charges....
Click to expand...

My son has had his CO2 BB pistol for several years now, so he had it when he was 12. He is allowed to use it unsupervised, oh the terror, plinking in the back yard. Yesterday he took the pistol and his bow to a friends house to shoot, both were "unsupervised" and somehow managed not to kill themselves or any dogs. To say that allowing these two boys to plink around unsupervised is tantamount to criminal negligence is assinine.

BTW - his cheap little BB pistol does not have an orange tip and would look plenty real enough from more than five or ten yards.
 
At the end of the day multiple lives have been ruined. A 12 year old boy is dead, a family is grieving, & a man has to live the rest of his life knowing he shot and killed a child. We can all sit here and Monday Morning Quarterback, me included, but I don't know how I would have reacted in that situation. Its a lose lose all around. What happened if the gun turned out to be real and he shot you, or shot another child while you were standing right there. Just a sad situation all around
 
I just don't get the free fire mentality - our troops in war zones have a higher threshold than the police.

Yes, sad all the way around; no one wins - everyone loses. Even all of us as we have yet another example of 'Calling the cops to help = someone dead that didn't deserve to be'.
 
Saw the gun on the news this morning, looked pretty damn real to me.

And I don't think that a cop should be expected to trust his life to Joe Blow's evaluation that a gun is 'probably fake'. You average citizen can't tell a gun from an umbrella, let alone a real gun from a realistic toy gun.
 
Not the first one of these, and sadly, probably won't be the last. The patrolmen's union issued a statement that the 911 dispatcher didn't repeat the caller's "probably fake" comments, so the cops only got a "man with a gun" message. If the kid was tall for his age, that would have raised the tension level, too. And some folks really have an attitude problem when a cop tells them to do something they don't want to do. It happens on "Cops" TV all the time. When it's a drunk that won't put his hands behind his back, he gets sprayed or tased. When it looks like you're reaching for a real gun, you get shot. Sad all around.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
2 questions:

Who gave a 12 year old an airsoft gun to play with unsupervised?

More importantly, Who removed the orange tip?

If it was someone other than the kid, they should face manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide charges....
Click to expand...

So should the cops who beat to death the homeless man in Fullerton, ca
So should Paul Duncan on the Framingham PD who put a round thru the back of a prone, handcuffed, elderly man because Paul's gun "just went off".
So should the BART cops who put a round thru the back of Oscar's head while he was prone, handcuffed on the ground with the cop's knee between his shoulder blades.

But we all know who gets the special protection, don't we?

However, in this incident, with the kid, PSGWSP....sorry Mom, you're an idiot for not paying attention to what your kid was screwing around with....
 
I hate airsoft guns for kids for this very reason. I'm not for banning or laws, but I would not let my son have one, buying him real guns under my control instead. His play guns were super soakers and I broke down and let him buy clear plastic airsoft guns. You are free to make your own decisions but I would not let my kid run around the neighborhood with one for fear of an accident like this.

Flame away!
 
PSGWSP.
[tinfoil]..and they're building cases to get rid of all toy guns too.

I have airsoft guns. I've taught my 11 year old the basics with it, supervised. She knows that even though they are toys, they are not to be treated like toys. I'm rather confident my 11 year old daughter would not take any of our airsoft guns down to the town park and rec building and go around pointing it at people, after pulling off the orange tip, and then not comply with a police officer with a gun drawn on her....But hey, that's just my kid.
 
I met a guy (LE) a couple of years ago who got shot right though the eye by a ten year old while going through the front door of a crack house.
Anyone who thinks that some of these kids who would have been better off raised by wolves than by the dirt bags they where raised by, can't kill you just as fast as a as grown man .
Think again

http://www.wtae.com/news/local/beav...ead-after-cigarette-comment-to-teens/17708056

I'll call out crappy behavior by LE as quick as anyone, but damn it gets thick around here sometimes.
Someone makes a grab for what appears to even a trained eye a real pistol after you order them to put their hands up.
I suppose the armchair quarterbacks would use their super powers to determine it wasn't real and Kung Fu it out of their hand, all in a 16th of a second.
 
dcmdon said:
Either way, the cop was justified.

Which reminds me. Have any of you seen the show Justified? Entertaining with lots of gun play. Streaming on Amazon Prime.
Click to expand...

Good digression, "Justified" is a fantastic show and contrary to the title Rayland Givens rarely shoots people. He is "just next to a shootout".

The next season is going to be fantastic, word is the Marshals are going to go after Boyt Crowter
 
Ringworm said:
So should the cops who beat to death the homeless man in Fullerton, ca
So should Paul Duncan on the Framingham PD who put a round thru the back of a prone, handcuffed, elderly man because Paul's gun "just went off".
So should the BART cops who put a round thru the back of Oscar's head while he was prone, handcuffed on the ground with the cop's knee between his shoulder blades.

But we all know who gets the special protection, don't we?

However, in this incident, with the kid, PSGWSP....sorry Mom, you're an idiot for not paying attention to what your kid was screwing around with....
Click to expand...

Without being there:
No.
No.
No.
Could a situation evolve to that point? Yes. To the point of 'beating someone to death", that is the reason someone being unarmed is moot. You can die from blunt force trauma.

Edit: On an unrelated note, How the f do you use the multiple quote thing?
 
Last edited:
That video is fairly compelling in that it is:

1) Clear - easy to identify location and those involved
2) Refutes officer testimony about giving a command to him (unless it was via ESP and/or took less than 1 second)

Got to hate those unknown security cameras - your department should have gone around and located it and collected it for evidence - then lost it. Isn't that how NYC does it?
 
GM-GUY said:
That video is fairly compelling in that it is:

1) Clear - easy to identify location and those involved
2) Refutes officer testimony about giving a command to him (unless it was via ESP and/or took less than 1 second)

Got to hate those unknown security cameras - your department should have gone around and located it and collected it for evidence - then lost it. Isn't that how NYC does it?
Click to expand...

Hard to tell, but it looks to me that his hands were near his waist when it looks like the shots are fired. The cops are a lot closer than I figured from the initial report. No audio, no idea if he was giving commands as they pulled up. All that taken into account, that video does not look good.
 
Ringworm said:
So should the cops who beat to death the homeless man in Fullerton, ca
So should Paul Duncan on the Framingham PD who put a round thru the back of a prone, handcuffed, elderly man because Paul's gun "just went off".
So should the BART cops who put a round thru the back of Oscar's head while he was prone, handcuffed on the ground with the cop's knee between his shoulder blades.

But we all know who gets the special protection, don't we?

However, in this incident, with the kid, PSGWSP....sorry Mom, you're an idiot for not paying attention to what your kid was screwing around with....
Click to expand...


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/bart-officer-sentenced.html
 
So how many people (myself included) are changing their thoughts now that we've seen the video tape.

There was clearly no time for any orders. They simply drove up and murdered the kid. Done.

- - - Updated - - -

Tommy Gun said:
Why did they get so close?
Click to expand...

Because it was easier to shoot him that way.

Cops don't train de-escalation any more. They just train to roll over any PERCEIVED threat.

DISGUSTING.
 
dcmdon said:
So how many people (myself included) are changing their thoughts now that we've seen the video tape.

There was clearly no time for any orders. They simply drove up and murdered the kid. Done.

- - - Updated - - -



Because it was easier to shoot him that way.

Cops don't train de-escalation any more. They just train to roll over any PERCEIVED threat.

DISGUSTING.
Click to expand...

Same, no time to react.
 

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