Center Axis Relock (C.A.R) - Any thoughts???

[Twotonehp]

I've been doing a little research on the Center Axis Relock shooting system, devised by Paul Castle. From what little that I've been able to put together it appears to be a very interesting and after some safe practice I have gained enough confidence in the fact that it appears to be practicle and quite functionable. This link will explain it far better than I can. http://www.sabretactical.com/
For a good demo, at the almost top in the boxes click on Center Axis Relock (C.A.R.) and watch some of the short videos.

Previously castle has only offered his courses to law enforcement and I believe milatary personnel only. I recently read where he's offering the course or similiar to the public.

Anyway, take a look and throw out some thoughts on it. Personally, from what little that I've played with it, it's accurate, quicker, and combat savy. At the very least, try it and see for your self how the sights come right into alignment when you pull up and then play with it and see how quick it can be. At this point I'm hoping to take the course someday soon and become more fimiliar with it.

Stay safe,
Justin

 

[TonyD]

Haven't had the opportunity to research in-depth but on the surface it just appears to be another instructor trying to introduce the "new mouse trap" that is the same as the old mouse trap. That new slice of bread is the same as the old slice of bread.

 

[TonyD]

CAR is about saving time. On the first range day the author dragged out
the shot timer and pressed Paul for a demonstration. At two yards with a
Glock .40 he achieved the following times from the high position with no
warmup whatsoever: 5 shots to body of target (5² group) in 0.76 seconds, 2
shots to body/2 shots to head in 0.94 seconds and most impressive 5 shots to
body/5 shots to head in 1.98 seconds! All shots were deep in the vital zones
of their respective targets. This shooting is so fast that Paul has actually
cracked the frame of his Glock 9mm below the ejection port by exceeding the
weapon¹s ability to absorb stress in rapid fire. Such fast yet accurate
shooting is a result of the recoil moving the weapon backwards in CAR
instead of upwards as with traditional techniques. The significance of this
speed shooting capability cannot be ignored considering the unreliability of
pistol instant-stops. Also, because the gun is held closer to the body there
is faster multiple target aquisition due to the fact the weapon has a
shorter distance to travel between targets.

Does this pique anyone's interest as a WTF? At 2 yards?? I routinely have split times at .12 or less. That's .60 for 5 shots. What's the big deal at six feet? And, the info above doesn't even address if the situation requires a draw from a concealed position.

I see a bit of misleading information. You can look at it for whatever you think it's worth.

 

[M1911]

The top competitive shooters will do anything to shoot faster and more accurately, so they can win. If it was faster to wear pink tutus and toe shoes, Doug Koenig, Matt Burkett, Rob Leatham, etc., would all be wearing pink tutus and toe shoes.

So just how many of them are using CAR? Not one, near as I can tell.

There are so many instructors these days saying that their system is bigger, better, faster, that unless you do it there way you will lose a gunfight, etc., etc. And only the "special" students who work with them will get to know there secrets. Just like the guys who will teach you their real estate/stock secrets that will make you wealthy for only $299.

 

[JimConway]

CAR

There have been a number of discussions on private forums and private news groups that all concluded the CAR was an uncomfortible way to shoot well and that the system had limited, if any, value. I have not spent any time evaluating the CAR system.

 

[Chris]

It might be one possible way to develop a stable and accurate point shooting discipline at extremely close ranges, but speed alone is not an effective measure of a shooting style.

My issue is that at close range you don't want both hands tied up in your gut as it is very likely that you will need a free hand to deal with things.

Seems to me that there are a hell of a lot of other skills in combat that should be of concern before spending time on stuff like this.

 

[unclestevie45]

I was at the MLEFIAA conference last October, and there were a couple guys from East Hartford PD using this. These guys were FAST shooters. They did not use it exclusivley though.

I was, however, not that impressed with the system. These guys were fast no matter what they did. As I recall, they liked it but felt it was very limited in actual use.

For me, the CAR thing is too gimmicky.

"Also, because the gun is held closer to the body there
is faster multiple target aquisition due to the fact the weapon has a
shorter distance to travel between targets."

TonyD, that quote really gets my WTF meter running.

 

[TonyD]

"Also, because the gun is held closer to the body there
is faster multiple target aquisition due to the fact the weapon has a
shorter distance to travel between targets."

TonyD, that quote really gets my WTF meter running.

Hey, Unc - You know what?...That's the only statement that actually has some merit. If you leave the weapon extended, and abide by the rule that the eyes follow the weapon during a scan, then it will take longer to produce an arc than it would if you scanned from a retracted ready. (Also known as "compressed")

This is where the fast-shooting-where-the targets-never-shoot-back crowd part company with reality.

 

[unclestevie45]

Alright Tony, I see what you mean. But, is that what the guy who wrote that meant?

We teach to bring the gun in close to the chest (compressed) during a variety of situations, and I agree totally with what you are saying.

From what I read though, I didn't think that is what the author of the original statement meant.

But, I could be wrong. It has happened before-just ask my ex wife.

 

[TonyD]

Alright Tony, I see what you mean. But, is that what the guy who wrote that meant?

We teach to bring the gun in close to the chest (compressed) during a variety of situations, and I agree totally with what you are saying.

From what I read though, I didn't think that is what the author of the original statement meant.

But, I could be wrong. It has happened before-just ask my ex wife.

Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT advocating anything of this "system". What I was saying is that out of everything "they" were advocating, that statement was the only thing that made sense. It's the same menatlity that we have always known that your weapon doesn't lead the search. In other words, you don't stick your gun around a corner at arms length when you're clearing a room. Your weapon doesn't go anywhere your eyes can't see.

I teach that the "individual" the "citizen" always brings the weapon back to a compressed position while scanning. That is actually a little different than what a tactical officer would do - because they have better/different training.

I see this happen all the time in IDPA and IPSC. And people who rely on IDPA and IPSC as their only training are in a bad way by fooling themselves.

I think you and I are on the same plane we are just getting confused by words.

 

[unclestevie45]

"I think you and I are on the same plane we are just getting confused by words."

Agreed sir.

 

[GTOShootr]

This is where the fast-shooting-where-the targets-never-shoot-back crowd part company with reality.

Nope, we were actually talking about that approach for shorter transitions at the last match.

 

[JimConway]

Eyes follow the weapon????

Hey, Unc - You know what?...That's the only statement that actually has some merit. If you leave the weapon extended, and abide by the rule that the eyes follow the weapon during a scan, then it will take longer to produce an arc than it would if you scanned from a retracted ready. (Also known as "compressed")

This is where the fast-shooting-where-the targets-never-shoot-back crowd part company with reality.

Tony
I was taught that the weapon follows the eyes. If the weapon leads, how the weapon know where to go??

 

[TonyD]

Tony
I was taught that the weapon follows the eyes. If the weapon leads, how the weapon know where to go??

You meant what I know.

 

[adweisbe]

Nope, we were actually talking about that approach for shorter transitions at the last match.

I was taught that twice. Once at a Wednesday night IPSC practice @ Harvard and once during the Hired Gun seminar.

On an unrelated note. Cover? What's that?