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carry while at the casino
- Thread starter JoeyD
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- Oct 9, 2007
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I do know the casinos say that firearms are prohibited, but I wonder about the rules governing enforceability considering indian reservations have their own governing bodies, etc (sovereign nation, or some crap).
dcmdon
NES Member
A lot of the info given in that thread was given by a tribal member. He has a lot to lose if he breaks their laws.
I'll happily ignore them. What are they going to do? Extradite me from the United States. I don't buy that for a minute.
I would treat it like any other property owner who may choose to ask you to leave. i.e. if you refuse you are trespassing. I've specifically looked for "no guns" signs at the entrances and have never seen any. I couldn't give a rats ass if I piss off the tribal elders. All I care about is compliance with CT law.
The truth of the matter is that they can pretend to be sovereign, but the casino complies with all state of CT laws when it comes to:
1) witholding of state taxes for employees
2) drinking age
3) bar closing time
Back to the original poster's question, you will not break any CT laws if you carry into a casino. Provided that the entrance is not clearly marked "no guns".
Don
I'll happily ignore them. What are they going to do? Extradite me from the United States. I don't buy that for a minute.
I would treat it like any other property owner who may choose to ask you to leave. i.e. if you refuse you are trespassing. I've specifically looked for "no guns" signs at the entrances and have never seen any. I couldn't give a rats ass if I piss off the tribal elders. All I care about is compliance with CT law.
The truth of the matter is that they can pretend to be sovereign, but the casino complies with all state of CT laws when it comes to:
1) witholding of state taxes for employees
2) drinking age
3) bar closing time
Back to the original poster's question, you will not break any CT laws if you carry into a casino. Provided that the entrance is not clearly marked "no guns".
Don
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I'm 99% sure that the sign at the entrances to Mohegan Sun specifically prohibit firearms.
dcmdon
NES Member
Funny, I don't recall seeing anything. Not that I really worry. I generally don't carry at the casino. We usually go for dinner and that means drinking. If I'm drinking, I'm not carrying.
I know at Mohegan the signs are in the middle as you walk in.."no firearms"...
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I was just at Mohegan Sun last Tuesday night. There was a sign posted very clearly at the top of the escalator across from Tuscany restaurant absolutely no firearms allowed in the casino!
Before they did away with the entrance/parking lot by the garage furthest out, the sign was just inside the door. Now we park in he garage and come in via elevator and I don't know where the sign is. We don't go there very often (and only for concerts) so no telling when/if I might wee it again.
Regardless, it's Tribal Law that no guns are allowed. Someone looked it up and posted it on another forum or two a year or two ago.
dcmdon
NES Member
Tribal law is irrelevant unless it is posted somewhere where a reasonable person would see.
Like you, I only really go for concerts and things like that. I don't gamble. If we're doing dinner and a concert, I'll not hesitate to have a few drinks. I've got several hours after dinner for it to wear off. So the guns stay at home.
Also, frankly, my desire to carry has something to do with the risk I'll be encountering that evening. I know that if I'm going to carry, I should carry all the time. But real life isn't like that for me.
So another story. I used to carry into the Meadows. It was a pretty sketchy walk back to parking at the Jai Ali. I know two people who have been mugged on the walk back to their cars after concerts at the meadows.
Entry was made with thunderwear. After I was in, I switched to pocket carry in a mens room stall. I never saw any signs at the door.
Now, that I'm old, I don't want hassles. The casinos are the best thing to happen to music lovers in CT in decades. I can drive up, have my car valet parked, enjoy a nice meal, watch a show in a civilized venue and then go have a drink afterwards at a nice lounge if my wife agrees to drive home. But I digress.
Like you, I only really go for concerts and things like that. I don't gamble. If we're doing dinner and a concert, I'll not hesitate to have a few drinks. I've got several hours after dinner for it to wear off. So the guns stay at home.
Also, frankly, my desire to carry has something to do with the risk I'll be encountering that evening. I know that if I'm going to carry, I should carry all the time. But real life isn't like that for me.
So another story. I used to carry into the Meadows. It was a pretty sketchy walk back to parking at the Jai Ali. I know two people who have been mugged on the walk back to their cars after concerts at the meadows.
Entry was made with thunderwear. After I was in, I switched to pocket carry in a mens room stall. I never saw any signs at the door.
Now, that I'm old, I don't want hassles. The casinos are the best thing to happen to music lovers in CT in decades. I can drive up, have my car valet parked, enjoy a nice meal, watch a show in a civilized venue and then go have a drink afterwards at a nice lounge if my wife agrees to drive home. But I digress.
I cannot think of a place in this state, possibly the country, where I would feel less safe than the casinos. Really really seedy places, they are. Of course they don't want you to have guns there. I'd much rather be in a casino openly run by steriotypical italian american gangsters from the 20's.
I guess we very different. I cannot think of a place in that I feel safer than in a casino.
Neither of you are wrong. To me, it depends on the casino.
Twin Rivers gives me that creepy feeling. We've been there for a few concerts/shows and I barely tolerate the place.
Mohegan Sun, on the other hand, seems very well run and controlled and I feel safer there.
Foxwoods I just don't like at all, but I also feel that they take security seriously there.
dcmdon
NES Member
The casinos were actually run by Italians from Atlantic City and Vegas. The indians were smart. They hired experts. I'm not sure if they are still involved.
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RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
...and all other weapons. Regardless, I carried a 4" Cold Steel "Voyager" folder in my right front trouser pocket and my girlfriend carried OC in her purse when we were at Mohegan Sun a few years ago.
The question of the day is, is there an enforcement authority there? EG, do they have their own justice system? If the answer to this is "No" then whatever silly "laws" they have in place are meaningless.... although my bet is they would probably kick you out and ban you for life. (Casinos have this habit of banning people, although it's mostly people who try to rig the games or get caught counting cards.... all of that, of course, is a lot less common than it used to be. )
-Mike
-Mike
The people that I saw running both Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods certainly aren't from the Indian Tribes! Looked like the Italians are probably still running both.
My understanding is YES, they do have their own justice system and courts. I have no desire to check them out, beyond reading their laws online.
http://www.mohegan.nsn.us/government/MoheganCourts.aspx
The link to their Tribal Laws is broken.
Tribal-State-Compact-Mohegan Tribe - gives some insight on division and sharing of LE responsibilities.
http://www.ct.gov/dosr/cwp/view.asp?a=2031&q=421834&dosrPNavCtr=|43105|
Mohegan Tribe Code:
http://search.municode.com/html/13768/
Happy reading!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Check out post #35 in this thread. CT law on the subject is pretty vague, but it doesn't require a sign at the entrance.
Also, keep in mind that CT law doesn't apply on tribal lands.
A Google search brought up some interesting results about safety in casinos.
I just found this. It looks like its legal to carry with a permit.
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=13768&stateId=7&stateName=Connecticut
Sec. 6-121. - Permit Required.
No person shall carry any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or any other firearm within the boundaries of the Mohegan Indian Reservation for any purpose unless said person has been issued a permit to carry such firearm by the Department of Public Safety. No permit shall be issued unless the individual applying for the permit has:
(1)
A valid, current Connecticut or federal permit to carry such firearm as documented to the Department of Public Safety;
(2)
The individual has a recognized, legitimate business need for such permit approved by the Department of Public Safety; and
(3)
Such permit shall be valid only during such times as the individual is on duty and engaged in said business.
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=13768&stateId=7&stateName=Connecticut
Sec. 6-121. - Permit Required.
No person shall carry any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or any other firearm within the boundaries of the Mohegan Indian Reservation for any purpose unless said person has been issued a permit to carry such firearm by the Department of Public Safety. No permit shall be issued unless the individual applying for the permit has:
(1)
A valid, current Connecticut or federal permit to carry such firearm as documented to the Department of Public Safety;
(2)
The individual has a recognized, legitimate business need for such permit approved by the Department of Public Safety; and
(3)
Such permit shall be valid only during such times as the individual is on duty and engaged in said business.
I tried to find a reference to Dept of Public Safety and there isn't much under the Tribal Nation site. I know my permit was issued by the CT DPS. I am not sure if the Tribal Nation issues a carry permit, as they sure don't make it easy to find out. It seems like a CT permit may be a requirement their own carry permit.
dcmdon
NES Member
While this is an interesting academic discussion, I keep coming back to practical considerations.
Most of the time when most of us go to the Casino we consume some quantity of alcohol. At least I do. So I don't carry at the casino. You weigh risks and benefits. I consider the Casino to be a low risk environment.
Thats precisely why either casino are such great places to go see a concert.
In contrast, I ALWAYS carried when I went to the Meadows/Dodge. Jesus god almighty, the walk back to parking after the show is enough to convince anyone of that.
With all that said. It looks like what sigman found says that an ADDITIONAL carry permit is required specific to the Mohegan reservation. In addition, the terms of its issuance and applicability seem VERY limited: "Such permit shall be valid only during such times as the individual is on duty and engaged in said business."
Most of the time when most of us go to the Casino we consume some quantity of alcohol. At least I do. So I don't carry at the casino. You weigh risks and benefits. I consider the Casino to be a low risk environment.
Thats precisely why either casino are such great places to go see a concert.
In contrast, I ALWAYS carried when I went to the Meadows/Dodge. Jesus god almighty, the walk back to parking after the show is enough to convince anyone of that.
With all that said. It looks like what sigman found says that an ADDITIONAL carry permit is required specific to the Mohegan reservation. In addition, the terms of its issuance and applicability seem VERY limited: "Such permit shall be valid only during such times as the individual is on duty and engaged in said business."
as dcmdon pointed out, it does look like this Tribal carry permit looks to be very specifically issues - maybe to guards and other security roles. Not likely they would let anyone else carry there. It is a pretty safe environment with cameras covering every inch, but I still carry my Kershaw knife and lock the gun in the car. I've heard of some stuff going down at Foxwoods periodically. And as for the Meadows? that's why I bought an NAA Mini Mag, although I haven't attempted entry yet and am still undecided whether I will or not.
Good catch, and a very good point.
It's just one of the requirements for their permit. It seems like it'd be easier to get an LTC in NJ than it would be for their tribal lands.
I posted this above.
It's a business, so they'll keep the ugly stuff quiet to keep up revenue, but there's no doubt in my mind that there's violent crimes that regularly occur in and around casinos (and on the road driving between them and your home).
If your car's parked on tribal property the law may still apply.
I'd also suggest that anyone posting on a public forum not brag about breaking the law, risking legal problems and giving us law abiding folks a bad name.
dcmdon
NES Member
Here's the reality. If you ever felt like carrying inside a casino, just carry. Its that whole judged by 12 vs carried by 6 thing. If I ever felt the need to do so, I would, and just be discreet about it. i.e. no open carry.
I understand the conceptual desire for the truth also.
The truth is that if somebody tries to rob you and you use a firearm defensively on tribal land you will be tried in CT court, not Mohegan court.
My other question is what happens if you are found out? Is it like going into a marked privately owned building, where it would be trespassing?
Or is it whatever charge you would get if you walked into a secondary school carrying?
What are the risks?
Again, I don't worry about this because I go there to have dinner and see a concert. So I eat, drink and enjoy myself. So no carrying. But I recognize that others may feel differently. (playing in a poker tourniment and some chance of walking out the door wit a bunch of cash when everyone knows I have a bunch of cash) or whatever. I don't gamble, so I'm hardly an expert on that end of it.
I understand the conceptual desire for the truth also.
The truth is that if somebody tries to rob you and you use a firearm defensively on tribal land you will be tried in CT court, not Mohegan court.
My other question is what happens if you are found out? Is it like going into a marked privately owned building, where it would be trespassing?
Or is it whatever charge you would get if you walked into a secondary school carrying?
What are the risks?
Again, I don't worry about this because I go there to have dinner and see a concert. So I eat, drink and enjoy myself. So no carrying. But I recognize that others may feel differently. (playing in a poker tourniment and some chance of walking out the door wit a bunch of cash when everyone knows I have a bunch of cash) or whatever. I don't gamble, so I'm hardly an expert on that end of it.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
