Can We Fight Asinine MA Gun Laws?

[Tacoma]

I’m tired of being told I can’t purchase (insert your choice of) firearm because it is not on the Massachusetts approved firearms roster. I’m tired of being told I can have this 30 round magazine, but not this one, because of the date it was made. I’m tired of buying pistols with heavy 10 pound triggers so that I immediately have to pay an extra $100 to make it “normal” again. I’m tired of being told my AR can’t have an adjustable stock, a bayonet lug, or a flash hider. I’m tired of hearing my out-of-state friends can’t buy ammo in Massachusetts. I'm tired of being laughed at when I tell out of state friends not to enter MA with empty brass cases. I’m just all around tired of the asinine gun laws in Massachusetts.

Like many, I could move out of state. However, every time one of “us” does that, these ridiculous laws are strengthened. What I’d really like to do is fight them, assuming this is possible, but I haven’t the foggiest idea how to do that.

Is this a fight worth starting? Is it a fight I could win without millions of dollars in my bank account?

Ed

I'm pretty sure the ultraliberal minds of MA believe you should feel grateful they let you have any firearm.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

While I don't necessarily think the fact that COMM2A is doing this work should bar others from doing it as well, the temptation to "JUST DO IT" can easily (and I'm sure has) produced case law that works against us.

We need a pro-gun mega-billionaire to will his estate to the task of returning our gun laws to "as written" by the framers.

Comm2A doesn't hold a monopoly on the litigation market. In fact, it was with some reluctance that we even started Comm2A and we did so only after it was clear that no one else in Massachusetts was prepared to execute a purposeful and cogent approach to Second Amendment litigation. Others have brought cases one-off cases with the idea that they'd become 2A heroes only to set the cause back even further - Holden, Chardin, ASSC, etc. We are acutely aware that with every case we bring, we run the risk of creating bad case law that cannot easily be undone. We're already working with a deck that's badly stacked against us because folks had to tilt at their windmills.

 

[mbullism]

Ed... I'm far better looking than I am rich (and that's subjective ), So I can't support or belong to every group every year-

Comm2a. Money well "spent".

 

[Dadstoys]

As well as donating to the cause, take some new folks shooting while the weather is nice.
Every educated person is a vote.
There is some fear on the part of the politicians already, if there wasn't you'd be down to a single shot and two rounds of ammo per month, if they felt generous.
And feeling damn lucky you got that much.
They fear being voted out of office more than anything else.

 

[spt_1955]

To get back to the OP's original question: no, the insane laws in MA aren't going anywhere. The people who live in this state like them and keep voting for people who promise to try to make them worse. Donate to Comm2a and look for a job and a home elsewhere. That's what I'm doing.

Unfortunately this is the fact. Donate to Comm2A and hope to at least hope to stem the flood. MA has a VERY large majority of anti-gun residents. That is a fact. Unfortunately in this form of government you are not going to enact pro second amendment laws without the support of the majority and you will NEVER have that in MA. You live in a state that elected a socialist who worked her way up the educational bureaucracy (never had a real job) by lying about being a Native American and got caught and the electorate doesn't care. You want something different I can recommend Arizona and I am sure there are other states where people will share your second amendment views or you can go to Vermont and live with the "whatever floats your boat" crowd.

As far as the AG's regulations concerning handgun sales (940 CMR 16.00) That was challenged in court by American Shooting Sports Council and to make a long (painful) story short the lawsuit (and appeal) were lost to the MA Supreme Judicial Court. THe Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and COMM2A tried to resurrect that approach using the Glock "loaded chamber indicator" ruling of the MA AG and that lawsuit was dismissed last year. So good luck with overturning those regulations

P.S. I also donate to SAF

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Comm2A doesn't hold a monopoly on the litigation market. In fact, it was with some reluctance that we even started Comm2A and we did so only after it was clear that no one else in Massachusetts was prepared to execute a purposeful and cogent approach to Second Amendment litigation. Others have brought cases one-off cases with the idea that they'd become 2A heroes only to set the cause back even further - Holden, Chardin, ASSC, etc. We are acutely aware that with every case we bring, we run the risk of creating bad case law that cannot easily be undone. We're already working with a deck that's badly stacked against us because folks had to tilt at their windmills.

I am no attorney, I just don't understand how laws can be made and passed that are against the Bill of Rights, the constitution, and the state constitution. I always thought it would be easy to repeal those laws? Other states have freedoms we don't, if this is a United States, then I want some of that. Signed I don't understand it.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Unfortunately this is the fact. Donate to Comm2A and hope to at least hope to stem the flood. MA has a VERY large majority of anti-gun residents. That is a fact. Unfortunately in this form of government you are not going to enact pro second amendment laws without the support of the majority and you will NEVER have that in MA. You live in a state that elected a socialist who worked her way up the educational bureaucracy (never had a real job) by lying about being a Native American and got caught and the electorate doesn't care. You want something different I can recommend Arizona and I am sure there are other states where people will share your second amendment views or you can go to Vermont and live with the "whatever floats your boat" crowd.

As far as the AG's regulations concerning handgun sales (940 CMR 16.00) That was challenged in court by American Shooting Sports Council and to make a long (painful) story short the lawsuit (and appeal) were lost to the MA Supreme Judicial Court. THe Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and COMM2A tried to resurrect that approach using the Glock "loaded chamber indicator" ruling of the MA AG and that lawsuit was dismissed last year. So good luck with overturning those regulations

P.S. I also donate to SAF

Lost?? Dismissed why?

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

In my opinion if you are that fed up with the stupid BS in Mass then try and move, Im not being a dick but realistic because regardless of what Comm2A tries to do they will not rid Mass of the insane laws regarding firearms. The agenda on the legislature is fighting towards making them more strict and they will continue to fight against us, personnally if its possible moving is the best option because we are not wanted here and thats the hard truth. Moving away will not only free of this garbage but also you will not be funding this stupid govement with your taxes. I been a Mass resident my whole life and planning on moving soon, its definately not an easy thing to get up and move but if its at all possible then look into it. Im not saying give up but its going to probably somehow get worse if anything. The funny thing is deep down I bet these ignorant anti's that make these laws know how friggen stupid and petty the laws are as it is but at the end of the day they get the votes and will continue to spew the nonsense and get crowds of morons supporting them.

 

[drgrant]

Lost?? Dismissed why?

His post was a little misleading... the LCI thing is still ongoing, that one is hardly over yet.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I am no attorney, I just don't understand how laws can be made and passed that are against the Bill of Rights, the constitution, and the state constitution. I always thought it would be easy to repeal those laws? Other states have freedoms we don't, if this is a United States, then I want some of that. Signed I don't understand it.

Because there's no up front punishment for the legislators for writing and passing garbage like that, that's why.

-Mike

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Because there's no up front punishment for the legislators for writing and passing garbage like that, that's why.

-Mike

OK, but a judge should be...I say "should be" able to tell the state the law is garbage.

 

[Lowbird]

OK, but a judge should be...I say "should be" able to tell the state the law is garbage.

While a nice thought. In reality nine times out of ten in our cases the judge is the state. The game is rigged.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

While a nice thought. In reality nine times out of ten in our cases the judge is the state. The game is rigged.

Too bad we couldn't sue the politicians that passed the laws, make them pay for attorneys, they shouldn't get the AG or AAG to do the dirty work paid by tax money. If anything the AG and AAG should be fighting for our rights. OK I am done

 

[falcon123]

Here's another suggestion. Probably faster than legislation.

"Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once?"​ Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience" 1849​ ​ ​ ​

Greetings! Civil disobedience has been an honored and noble form of resistance to tyrants and despots since Antigone defied Creon by refusing to leave her brother's body to decay on the battlefield. There are even examples of civil disobedience in theOld Testament, though the New Testament seems to insist that we subjugate ourselves to the government. Many martyrs of history stood up government tyranny and latter were sainted. Civil disobedience in modern times is seen as a form of protest best left to liberal youth who don't mind spending a night in jail. Obedience to the rule of law is one of the pillars of conservative belief. In general, conservatives will defer to following the law, while at the same time working to amend a bad law. We are not inclined by nature to rioting, sit-ins, boycotts, etc. In his new book, By the People: Rebuilding Liberty Without Permission, Charles Murray advocates civil disobedience to drag down the oppressive regulatory state. Rather than camping out in public parks or blocking highways, Murray says that we should be blocking government by refusing to obey their regulations. He is not advocating that Americans ignore sensible regulations that protect people, but those regulations are rare. Now, hordes of bureaucrats write their own "laws", outside the political and justice system. In a recent Wall Street Journal article, Murray wrote, "Other regulations could be written only by bureaucrats with way too much time on their hands, such as ones that mandate a certain sort of latch for a bakery's flour bins or the proper way to describe flower bulbs to customers, or the kind of registration form to be attached to a toddler's folding chair, while also prescribing an option for registering the product through the Internet." Murray advocates ignoring senseless regulations as form of civil disobedience. Of course, the government isn't going to take this sitting down, but if enough citizens and businesses participate, the bureaucratic machine will become overloaded and unable to respond. We often forget that we outnumber the bureaucrats. For those few businesses or citizens who end up being singled out for retaliation, Murray calls for a defense fund. Henry David Thoreau advocated for people to refuse to abide by the law in order to right some wrongs that he saw as abhorrent. We all feel the same way about some laws and regulations today. Thoreau resisted and we still talk about his courage today. Thoreau said "Even voting for the right is doing nothing for it. It is only expressing to men feebly your desire that it should prevail. A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men." Charles Murray's proposal recognizes that voting rarely brings about the right result. Civil disobedience is, as Thoreau called it, "cast(ing) your whole vote, not merely a strip of paper." The political and judicial process is broken, perhaps beyond repair. We can stop the bureaucracy with peaceful resistance. This is a form of protest that has been very effective for liberals. It can work for those of us who seek to shrink the government. Next month, you have a unique opportunity to hear Charles Murray speak about his radical ideas for rebuilding liberty. The Greater Boston Tea Party and the Worcester Tea Party have joined forces to bring Charles Murray to Massachusetts. He will be speaking at Harvard University on September 22. This is an event that you do not want to miss. The event is FREE! We are offering VIP seating for a small fee so that we can defer part of the expenses of bringing Mr. Murray to Massachusetts. If you cannot attend the event, we ask that you support the event by making a donation. See the links below to buy a VIP seat or to make a donation. In liberty,​ Ken Mandile​ Co-Founder of the Worcester Tea Party ​ ​

 

[Lank]

Change is difficult, especially in such a liberal state as this. But there are many people working hard to change that, Comm2A, GOAL and the NRA. So we need to support them.

There is nothing liberal about contemporary liberalism!

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Change is difficult, especially in such a liberal state as this. But there are many people working hard to change that, Comm2A, GOAL and the NRA. So we need to support them.

The NRA...Helping us in MA?

 

[Individualist]

Support Comm2A and GOAL with both donations and your time when called upon.

They both do good work on our behalf, but can't do it all on their own.

 

[JayMcB]

Comm2A has eight cases in federal court at the moment with a few more in the advance planning stage.

THIS is a reminder it's time to donate again.

I challenge every NES member to give up their coffee money this week and send them at least [STRIKE=.]$25.[/STRIKE] $50

I'm sending mine in shortly.

EDIT: sent

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

THIS is a reminder it's time to donate again.

I challenge every NES member to give up their coffee money this week and send them at least [STRIKE=.]$25.[/STRIKE] $50

I'm sending mine in shortly.

EDIT: sent

$50 earns a Comm2A membership and a lovely gift.

 

[iofneedle]

It is so easy to set up PayPal for a monthly donation to Comm2A...plus it is tax deductible. It will add up.

And once again the Amazon linky http://www.amazon.com/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&linkCode=ur2&tag=com0d0-20

 

[mark056]

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

1. Comm 2A is a relatively new organization.

2. It takes time for cases to move through the judicial system.

The best thing you could do for yourself is forget everything you learned in high school civics class about how you think government works.

Next, listen to posts regarding both legislation and litigation by knowledgeable people on this forum. Although Comm 2A is relatively new, GOAL has been around for along time and some people have been in this fight for 40 years in Mass.

Everything in politics is in the end about what can realistically be attained and to a degree the art of the deal. In the past "a take no prisoners" attitude and abrasive personalities have hurt rather than helped our cause on Beacon Hill. The average pol in this state is really interested in one thing: getting re elected, you have to convince him/her why supporting our position is a good idea. With so many coming from an urban background with no or negative experience with guns, how do you make that happen? You educate but more importantly you show the legislator what's in it for him/her. Power and the preservation of power trumps (no pun intended) ideology every time.

Mass Gun Laws are a legal nightmare. Comm 2A carefully picks the cases that it feels it has the best chance to prevail in. It will not undertake a case unless it thinks it can win. That's how things are done in the real world.

Sit back, read the posts by the elder statesmen of this forum who understand either the legislature or the courts. We have them. I am not one of them, but I know the system because I was part of the system for a long time. If you don't know the term realpolitik learn it and learn what it means. Understand the dynamics of Mass politics and realize those are the parameters that these groups work within everyday.

A kick ass and take names approach will not work nor will the crap you learned in high school civics work either.

 

[Whutmeworry]

Best solution is to move and stop giving your tax money to people who support these kinds of laws. Second best solution might be to pay attention to politics and vote appropriately at all state and town elections no matter how minor the position.

THIS x 1000! THIS is where we lose. Example:

"I don't like either of the choices for (insert the high office here - Governor, POTUS, etc.) so I'm not even going to show up at the polls." Forget that your Town Councilors, Town Administrator, State Representative may VERY WELL run for MUCH HIGHER office someday (State Sen. B. Hussien Obama anyone?). It needs to be shouted from the rooftops that there's nothing wrong with leaving the presidential/governor's box unchecked if you're disgusted with the lack of a choice for the high office, but for the love of humanity, DON'T STAY HOME!!! Also, spend time with your local D or R town committee nominating the right candidates at the get-go. It's the only way to bail out this sinking ship.

Just my .02 cents worth, .0125555 after taxes.