Can We Fight Asinine MA Gun Laws?

[egouin]

I’m tired of being told I can’t purchase (insert your choice of) firearm because it is not on the Massachusetts approved firearms roster. I’m tired of being told I can have this 30 round magazine, but not this one, because of the date it was made. I’m tired of buying pistols with heavy 10 pound triggers so that I immediately have to pay an extra $100 to make it “normal” again. I’m tired of being told my AR can’t have an adjustable stock, a bayonet lug, or a flash hider. I’m tired of hearing my out-of-state friends can’t buy ammo in Massachusetts. I'm tired of being laughed at when I tell out of state friends not to enter MA with empty brass cases. I’m just all around tired of the asinine gun laws in Massachusetts.

Like many, I could move out of state. However, every time one of “us” does that, these ridiculous laws are strengthened. What I’d really like to do is fight them, assuming this is possible, but I haven’t the foggiest idea how to do that.

Is this a fight worth starting? Is it a fight I could win without millions of dollars in my bank account?

Ed

 

[tysdad115]

Is it a fight I could win without millions of dollars in my bank account?

Ed

No. The current AG shares the same feelings as the previous ones..

 

[atilla]

Is this a fight worth starting? Is it a fight I could win without millions of dollars in my bank account?

1. yes.

2. no.

donate to comm2a, they have been doing a lot of good work down in massachusetts and hopefully they continue the trend for years to come.

 

[CRSIII]

1. yes.

2. no.

donate to comm2a, they have been doing a lot of good work down in massachusetts and hopefully they continue the trend for years to come.

I've said it before, I'll say it again; I should have been born rich, instead of so good looking.

 

[egouin]

A few organizations do a great job a - monitoring - legislation. However, I am talking about one or more lawsuits challenging the laws or practices on the books.

 

[atilla]

A few organizations do a great job a - monitoring - legislation. However, I am talking about one or more lawsuits challenging the laws or practices on the books.

that's what comm2a does.

 

[ToddDubya]

that's what comm2a does.

And if you only have half a million in the bank instead of a full million I bet they'll accept it anyway. Every little bit helps.

 

[Glockster30]

A few organizations do a great job a - monitoring - legislation. However, I am talking about one or more lawsuits challenging the laws or practices on the books.

that's what comm2a does.

Unfortunately, Attila is right. Let comm2a do the legal work. There have been several cases tried without the influence of comm2a that have come back with court Rulings that have hurt us.

 

[egouin]

that's what comm2a does.

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

 

[rogues]

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

I'd refer you to one of the Comm2a guy's signatures that talks about how you eat an elephant. Nothing will happen as fast as we'd like it to.

 

[Dench]

Comm2A support

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Donate to Comm2A, as much as you can give.

 

[Ultrarunner]

Just wait until the Supreme Court demographic make up looks like Massachusetts, Hillary is President, and there is a mid term congressional swing. MA Law will look like a walk in the park compared to whats looming in the decades ahead...

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Just wait until the Supreme Court demographic make up looks like Massachusetts, Hillary is President, and there is a mid term congressional swing. MA Law will look like a walk in the park compared to whats looming in the decades ahead...

I hope you are wrong.

 

[soam]

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

Because there's a lot of broken shit in the MA laws, and fighting them in the courts has to be done carefully and deliberately in order to not make bad case law that screws us over even more. Money is also a factor, they only have so much money to fund cases, so they have to choose carefully based on "bang for the buck" and likelihood of victory. Also, courts are slooooow and Comm2A hasn't been around for all that long (a few years? I forget exactly)

EDIT: Just over 5 years based on this thread: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/105446-Announcing-Commonwealth-Second-Amendment

 

[Glockster30]

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

First, comm2a takes it one step at a time and generally focuses on one issue. If you have to ask why things are still broken, then you are not familiar with the legal system as it takes time for a lawsuit to move through it. In addition, some of the issues that you brought up in the OP had no chance prior to the McDonald & Heller SCOTUS Rulings that are just a few years old.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Because there's a lot of broken shit in the MA laws, and fighting them in the courts has to be done carefully and deliberately in order to not make bad case law that screws us over even more. Money is also a factor, they only have so much money to fund cases, so they have to choose carefully based on "bang for the buck" and likelihood of victory. Also, courts are slooooow and Comm2A hasn't been around for all that long (a few years? I forget exactly)

EDIT: Just over 5 years based on this thread: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/105446-Announcing-Commonwealth-Second-Amendment

Will the courts hear the case(s) sooner if we deflate some footballs?

 

[soam]

Will the courts hear the case(s) sooner if we deflate some footballs?

Maybe if we shoot the footballs.

DISCLAIMER: Don't do that.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Maybe if we shoot the footballs.

DISCLAIMER: Don't do that.

 

[knfmn]

I hope you are wrong.

As do I, but he isn't. If Hillary doesn't get caught on video strangling a baby, she is going to be the next POTUS. (Because we *need* a woman president. Puke!) There will be a swing to a Democrat majority while she is in office and we can expect a non-expiring Brady II, with even worse provisions than the first one. Think a ban on all semi-auto centerfire rifles that don't look like those insane NY AR's. 10 round mag limits throughout the nation. Mandatory background checks everywhere. It's going to be very, very, very bad.

To get back to the OP's original question: no, the insane laws in MA aren't going anywhere. The people who live in this state like them and keep voting for people who promise to try to make them worse. Donate to Comm2a and look for a job and a home elsewhere. That's what I'm doing.

 

[Crotchrocket]

Best solution is to move and stop giving your tax money to people who support these kinds of laws. Second best solution might be to pay attention to politics and vote appropriately at all state and town elections no matter how minor the position. Even with millions of dollars I'm not sure you could effect much change and it takes a long time. You'd really have to change the culture of the state overall. With the laws the way they are people who really object take the first option and leave even less people fighting for their rights in the state.

If there are about 350,000 gun license holders in the state of MA and a population of 6.8million then gun owners only represent 5% of the population. To our advantage only about 40% vote in major elections and even fewer in minor ones. Still even if every single gun owner banded together and voted at every occasion for pro gun officials, some of the other 30-40% would need to vote with them. Registered democrats outnumber republicans in MA 3 to 1, but un-enrolled outnumber both democrats and republicans. Getting out there and supporting pro gun politicians and encouraging others to do the same as well as registering to vote can help. If every registered gun owner in MA could get 5 non-gun owners to register to vote and vote at every election with them, then maybe in 5 or 10 years there could be talk of gun control reform.

Gun owners are a pretty small minority though and it's hard to get traction. There are more African Americans than gun owners, there are twice as many Hispanics as gun owners and gun owners and homosexuals are just about tied with the same number of people. So as a minority it's very hard to fight the oppression of the majority. Maybe we need parades and gun owner/non-gun owner alliances. Of course since gun ownership is also shamed and illegal in many ways peacefully and publically displaying your gun pride is likely to get you arrested and all your guns taken away.

 

[atilla]

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

you think a place as blue as MA is going to change overnight? what do you think is going to happen, everyone is just gonna be like "wow dude these laws ARE bullshit!" and repeal the AWB, mag restrictions, and make carry permits shall-issue, maybe go all the way and introduce constitutional carry?

what's your endgame? they didn't even introduce these anti-gun laws in MA with the speed you seem to want to see them repealed.

 

[drgrant]

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

Lawsuits take time. LOTS of time, for a bunch of reasons. Not to mention you can't just fire a bunch of lawsuits in a shotgun like pattern, because one wrong move can end up costing you and/or blocking progress on some other case down the road. Everything has to be done carefully and with calculation. Dealing with this stuff in the courts is like disposing of nuclear
waste.... you screw up, you easily contaminate something else in a way that could be impossible or nearly impossible to clean up. Some of it is also like building a bridge. The blocks gotta get stacked in the right way or the whole bridge will fall apart when you insert the last block.

Not to mention not everything is viable for a lawsuit. Even if we win nearly everything, and the dust settles MA is -STILL- going to be a dumpster fire compared to most free states. Your friends are NEVER going to be able to buy ammo here among other things, and things like LTCs are never going away. The self defense laws in MA will also always suck, that's not something that can be resolved easily either. If you want to continue living in MA you will have to accept that some part of it will always suck, there's no getting around this. If the prospect of this upsets you, I suggest relocating to upper new england. It's a good idea to fight the man legally but there is a portion of the "MA is pure shit" reality in this state that is ultimately inescapable.

-Mike

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

At the risk of pissing off people on the same side... If Comm2A does exactly what I am talking about, why so many things still broken? (See OP for some of the issues.)

We can't stomp our feet and make the federal courts work on our timetable. The federal courts tend to only fast track really important life or death issues such as deciding the length of Tom Brady's suspension.

The Draper case against the AG was filed on June of 2014 and was dismissed by the district court in March of this year. That's actually a pretty decent turn around. We're on to the First Circuit now with a due date of September 11th for the opening brief. Appellate pleadings should be concluded by late October or mid-November. When a three judge panel will hear oral arguments and issue a decision is anyone's guess. We can't drive the train any faster and we don't want to. It's more important to do things right rather than fast. You only get one 'bite at the apple' - if you loose no one gets a second chance to make a better case.

Comm2A has eight cases in federal court at the moment with a few more in the advance planning stage. Each of these cases is designed to chip away at the regulatory scheme in some small way. We don't file cases just to benefit one person, each case is designed to break new ground. That's actually pretty ****ing prolific for a volunteer, part-time operation. None of these actions is trivial. They all take a HUGE amount of preparation, research and planning.

Let's put things into perspective. The Supreme court decided Brown in 1954. In 1966 Alabama Governor Wallace was still defying a federal court order to desegregate Alabama schools. Segregation lawsuits even continued into the 80s. What makes anyone think that states like Massachusetts are going to come around any faster?

 

[Sparky123]

Change is difficult, especially in such a liberal state as this. But there are many people working hard to change that, Comm2A, GOAL and the NRA. So we need to support them.

 

[EMTDAD]

I think the other thing that everyone can do is educate. Even if it's one person, invite an anti to the range, or pay for or do a "Learn to shoot" program thru MFS or AFS with them. Get them to get their sons in Boy Scouts where the boys will learn responsible shooting.

I think the way the organizations can help is by meeting people face to face at public locations that maybe are a bit on the edge with respect to guns. Would be great to see GOAL at the RV & Camping expo in February, or maybe at a boating show, etc. I think those shows it might be easier to get people on the fence to stop and listen. Maybe hand out some fliers on the ridiculousness of the MA laws.

 

[MachineHead]

Egouin, support Comm2A via donation. Eight cases in Federal Court is nothing to shake a stick at, especially if they're doing it to benefit us all.

Pretty badass if you really think about it. I don't know about you, but I leave legal stuff to the pros for KnuckleDragger's reasons.

We can't stomp our feet and make the federal courts work on our timetable...We can't drive the train any faster and we don't want to. It's more important to do things right rather than fast. You only get one 'bite at the apple' - if you loose no one gets a second chance to make a better case.

 

[namedpipes]

While I don't necessarily think the fact that COMM2A is doing this work should bar others from doing it as well, the temptation to "JUST DO IT" can easily (and I'm sure has) produced case law that works against us.

We need a pro-gun mega-billionaire to will his estate to the task of returning our gun laws to "as written" by the framers.

 

[Lowbird]

Maybe if we shoot the footballs.

DISCLAIMER: Don't do that.

Awwww, shucks. I never get to have any fun!

Keeping the Comm2a coffers full gentlemen. (And ladies) Is the best hope.
Unless someone has a rich uncle.

The only way I see to get change at the speed the OP wants it is if the reset is hit and shtf.

 

[xero2099]

A few organizations do a great job a - monitoring - legislation. However, I am talking about one or more lawsuits challenging the laws or practices on the books.

Comm2a fights the good fight, like Knuckle said you cant just spam lawsuits left and right you have to pick and choose your battles