C&R Curio & Relic BOUND BOOK

Not over kill at all. I started out using a cheap white cover book and after a few years it became pretty beat up. I have the book mentioned in the first post and its well laid out and the binding is strong. I also scan each page and place it on a flash drive in the event the book was ever damaged from water fire etc. I also attach a copy of the FA10 and scan that as well. Its not required by the BATF however ma law requires us to register them using FA10's so I have an easy way to find all my records. The flash drive is password protected and encrypted. But as a gift for someone just starting out....GREAT gift!
 
whats the general consensus on a phyisical bound book vs a program like 'mygunDB'? I only got my C&R recently and havnt bought any firearms with it yet, BUT...
 
This one is 8-7/8" X 7", Hardbound, with 72 pages: Amazon.com: BookFactory® C&R FFL 03 Bound Book / C&R Bound Book / Curio and Relics Bound Book, 72 Pages, Black Cover, Professional Grade, Hardbound, Page Size 8 7/8 x 7 (LOG-072-GUNCOLL-LKT39): Office Products

They also have 8-1/2" X 11", Wirebound, 100 pages: Amazon.com: BookFactory® ATF Bound Book / ATF Log Book - 100 Pages, Black-TransLux Cover - Wire-O, 11" x 8 1/2" (LOG-100-GUN-W01-ATF-T41): Office Products

Either are $19.99 shipped, if you add something else to get your order up to $25 total = spending $25 on Amazon is easy.

And for those on a strict budget, there's this one for $9.99 shipped ($25 Order): http://www.amazon.com/Curio-Relics-...4&sr=8-2&keywords=curio+and+relics+bound+book But read the reviews on this one. Nearly half the reviewers don't much like it.
 
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spcantwell said:
whats the general consensus on a phyisical bound book vs a program like 'mygunDB'? I only got my C&R recently and havnt bought any firearms with it yet, BUT...
Click to expand...

The ATF won't accept a Computer Program. "shall be maintained in bound form". See actual ATF wording in my follow-up post.

Some people say you can use a Computer Program, print out pages, and then insert them into a 3-Ring Binder, and that would constitute BOUND. Maybe. I would advise against it.
 
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SalemCat said:
The ATF won't accept a Computer Program. Must be a BOUND BOOK.

I "think" you can use a Computer Program, print out pages, and then insert them into a 3-Ring Binder. Maybe.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I was under the impression that they now reconise 'digital' bound books in lieu of hard copy? Or did I just miss understand and it is 'in addition to'
 
This is from the ATF's Web Site; I copied the relevant section just a minute ago:

(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. (1) Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a curio or relic shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or other acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm curio or relic. The sale or other disposition of a curio or relic shall be recorded by the licensed collector not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensee, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm curio or relic, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm curio or relic is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the licensee shall cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license), and note on the record the method used.
(2) The format required for the record of receipt and disposition of firearms by collectors is as follows:
Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record

Description of firearm
Receipt
Disposition
Manufacturer and/or importer
Model
Serial No.
Type
Caliber or gauge
Date
Name and address or name and license No.
Date
Name and address or name and license No.
Date of birth if non-licensee
Driver's license No. or other identification if non-licensee
 
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Of course every Law or Regulation is subject to interpretation. I would advise a strict interpretation.

I plan to buy the Hardbound Book. It's professional, meets the law, and would leave a good impression on any ATF agent. IMHO.
 
SalemCat said:
Of course every Law or Regulation is subject to interpretation. I would advise a strict interpretation.

I plan to buy the Hardbound Book. It's professional, meets the law, and would leave a good impression on any ATF agent. IMHO.
Click to expand...

You got me thinking, and I had some spare time before I go to a redneck birthday so...
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2008-2.pdf
ATF has determined that acquisition and disposition records required by 27 CFR Part 478, Subpart H, and §§ 478.121, 478.122, 478.123, and 478.125(e), in computerized form, satisfy the standard of permanency and are substantially equivalent to paper records if they meet the following criteria:

1. All data entered into the computer system must be recorded into the database and cannot be capable of being edited or modified at a later date without generating an audit trail. The software system must retain any correction of errors as an entirely new entry, without deleting or modifying the original entry. The system may allow for entries in a notes column to explain any correction.
2. The system must have a reliable daily memory backup capability to protect the data from accidental deletion or other system failure.
3. ...
It goes on from there but you get the point, it took them a while but they eventualy moved into the 21st centruy.
 
spcantwell said:
You got me thinking, and I had some spare time before I go to a redneck birthday so...
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2008-2.pdf
ATF has determined that acquisition and disposition records required by 27 CFR Part 478, Subpart H, and §§ 478.121, 478.122, 478.123, and 478.125(e), in computerized form, satisfy the standard of permanency and are substantially equivalent to paper records if they meet the following criteria:

1. All data entered into the computer system must be recorded into the database and cannot be capable of being edited or modified at a later date without generating an audit trail. The software system must retain any correction of errors as an entirely new entry, without deleting or modifying the original entry. The system may allow for entries in a notes column to explain any correction.
2. The system must have a reliable daily memory backup capability to protect the data from accidental deletion or other system failure.
3. ...
It goes on from there but you get the point, it took them a while but they eventualy moved into the 21st centruy.
Click to expand...

Nice find !

Do you know of any Software that meets those requirements ?

And you'd need a Daily Backup system.

With online backup you'd be in much better shape than a Bound Book.

Books can burn, get flooded, etc.

This highlights a problem the ATF has (probably like any Government Agency). The information is all over the place. Just the C&R List alone is scatterred over half a dozen separate PDF's. Would it be so much trouble for them to put all C&R Firearms in a single, updated list ?
 
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SalemCat said:
Nice find !

Do you know of any Software that meets those requirements ?

And you'd need a Daily Backup system.

With online backup you'd be in much better shape than a Bound Book.

Books can burn, get flooded, etc.

This highlights a problem the ATF has (probably like any Government Agency). The information is all over the place. Just the C&R List alone is scatterred over half a dozen separate PDF's. Would it be so much trouble for them to put all C&R Firearms in a single, updated list ?
Click to expand...

According to their web site
My Gun Database | The best way to manage your firearm collection
My Gun DataBase meets everything. There is a free version for less then 10 guns and its only $35 (i think?) for the full version. I know its been mentioned on here and I think the designer is on here someplace.

edit:
here it is
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...gundb-firearm-inventory-app-now-out-beta.html
and the designer is wolfrage
 
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spcantwell said:
Are you sure? I was under the impression that they now reconise 'digital' bound books in lieu of hard copy? Or did I just miss understand and it is 'in addition to'
Click to expand...

Mine is on Microsoft Excel. It has all the categories required for logging acquisition and disposal. Its saved on backup hard drive and can be printed out anytime and made into a bound book. For practical purposes, its an accounting set of book(s) for your relics. Something physical (paper docs.) within the guidelines of a log book. The log books are a nice touch with pics.
 
50 BMG said:
Not over kill at all. I started out using a cheap white cover book and after a few years it became pretty beat up. I have the book mentioned in the first post and its well laid out and the binding is strong. I also scan each page and place it on a flash drive in the event the book was ever damaged from water fire etc. I also attach a copy of the FA10 and scan that as well. Its not required by the BATF however ma law requires us to register them using FA10's so I have an easy way to find all my records. The flash drive is password protected and encrypted. But as a gift for someone just starting out....GREAT gift!
Click to expand...

Good Ideas !

If anyone is looking for a program to Encrypt their Flash Drive, check out TrueCrypt.Org . It's free, and I've been using it for years with no problems.
 
Either are $19.99 shipped, if you add something else to get your order up to $25 total = spending $25 on Amazon is easy.

Nice find, thanks - and don't forget to order from Comm2A.org's link to Amazon so they get a cut..
 
cmcgrath2 said:
Either are $19.99 shipped, if you add something else to get your order up to $25 total = spending $25 on Amazon is easy.

Nice find, thanks - and don't forget to order from Comm2A.org's link to Amazon so they get a cut..
Click to expand...

order from Comm2A.org's link to Amazon

Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more

It's worth saying twice. Thanks for reminding us all.

What I just did was click on that Link, and then saved it as my AMAZON Favorite. So I'll go there automatically.
 

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