Buying C&R handgun : Dealer has me spooked.

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vorlons

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Hello, just found this forum. I have tried searching for answers to my questions and could not find. Thanks in advance for any help.

I have a MA LTC-A All lawful Purposes. I have been doing some rifle shooting and want to start getting some milsurp rifles. I have sent in my application for C&R license and am waiting to get it.

While in gun store this past weekend, I struck up a conversation with owner regarding surplus CZ handguns. He now has me spooked and I am wondering if getting a C&R was such a good idea after all. [sad2]

Dealer: "You can't legally buy a C&R handgun in MA because it is not on "the list", UNLESS it was previously registered in MA before 1998 so no interstate purchase of C&R handgun allowed".

Me: My understanding is you can do interstate purchase of C&R handgun, which then must be registered on a FA-10 form. Since I would be a "collector" and not a "purveyor", the 1998 laws do not apply. Is this correct?


Dealer: "You can not carry a C&R handgun. It is only for range use and collecting only".

Me: My understanding is if a handgun is legal to own in MA, it is legal to carry. Correct?


Dealer: "You can not sell a C&R handgun to your wife (she als has LTC-A ALP) for her to carry.

Me: My understanding is with C&R (and MA law) you are limited to 4 sales per year and this includes private sale. If I find a sutible C&R carry handgun, can I private sell it to my wife who would register on a FA-10 form and she would be ok to carry it?


Dealer: "Why did you get a C&R using your home address? Not a good idea. This opens you up to no-knock warrents by the ATF if they so much as suspect you of any illegal activity"

Me: My understanding is they can do this NOW. I know they have option of checking your bound book / C&R guns once per year and this can be scheduled at their office. Do I really need to worry about increased chance of unexpected visits from the ATF?


I have lived 40 years, and want to continue to live, as a law abiding citizen. I have no desire to wander into grey area's. Any feedback is apreciated.

Regards,
Vorlons
 
I recommend you stop considering the dealer an authority when it comes to gun laws. This is generally good advice.
 
vorlons said:
Hello, just found this forum.
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A much better place to ask than your dealer - good move.

vorlons said:
While in gun store this past weekend, I struck up a conversation with owner regarding surplus CZ handguns.[sad2]
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Bad idea - remember, he wants to sell you guns, and he can't sell those CZ's in this state.
vorlons said:
Dealer: "You can't legally buy a C&R handgun in MA because it is not on "the list", UNLESS it was previously registered in MA before 1998 so no interstate purchase of C&R handgun allowed".
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Horsehockey. You can buy anything on the C&R list. If you have a "green card" (MA machine gun license), you can even buy C&R machine guns. Just make sure that you don't buy anything with 10+ round mags made after 1994... and I suspect that it will be a long time before anything like that is on the C&R list.

vorlons said:
Dealer: "You can not carry a C&R handgun. It is only for range use and collecting only".
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More horsehockey. You can carry anything you can conceal.

vorlons said:
Dealer: "You can not sell a C&R handgun to your wife (she als has LTC-A ALP) for her to carry.
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Well... I seem to recall something about if you sell a C&R gun within two years of you getting it that the BATFE doesn't like it, as you're not a dealer, you're a collector, but since I don't have my books with me today, I'll let someone else speak to that.

However, there's NOTHING that says that she can't carry your gun. This isn't NY, where your guns are listed on your permit. Buy the gun anyway, and just let her carry it if she wants. Or have HER get a C&R. They're only $30 for three years!

vorlons said:
Dealer: "Why did you get a C&R using your home address? Not a good idea. This opens you up to no-knock warrents by the ATF if they so much as suspect you of any illegal activity"

Me: My understanding is they can do this NOW. I know they have option of checking your bound book / C&R guns once per year and this can be scheduled at their office. Do I really need to worry about increased chance of unexpected visits from the ATF?
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Nope. AFAIK, the BATFE can't just pop in on an LTC holder. They can, however, pop in on a C&R FFL. However, where did he want you to put for an address? They won't give you a C&R for a PO box. So if you want a C&R at all, you just have to live with that. Just keep your bound book up to date and you're fine.
 
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Welcome to the forum.

Well, I hope you had hip-waders on when he started burying you in pure BS.

Sounds like you know your stuff and he was just full of it.

You can sell your C&Rs, just can't look to BATFE like you are trying to "conduct a business" with it. There are no time restrictions.

If your Wife or children have a LTC, they can carry or shoot whatever any of you own, no restrictions other than what a LTC might say. Carry a C&R if you like.

MA Dealers can't sell C&Rs unless they were in-state on 10/21/98. MA C&R FFLs (since they are not "purveyors of firearms", as you correctly pointed out) can freely sell up to 4/year in-state or sell to any C&R FFL (as many as they want) outside MA as a FFL to FFL transfer.

All C&Rs brought into MA (or purchased in MA) must be put on an FA-10 as "registration" (if not done as a transfer between 2 LTC holders or a dealer and LTC holder).
 
Hooey, Hogwash & Balderdash !

All complete utter nonsense. Find another dealer.

Best thing about the C&R is having all yer toys arrive at your front door !

IIRC, there's a "Sticky" concerning C&R FFL's round about here somewhere. Lots of threads about same floating around too.

Use advanced search, set preferences to "Show all threads" grab a snack and settle in.

Enjoy your stay. [smile]
 
MrTwigg said:
All complete utter nonsense. Find another dealer.

Best thing about the C&R is having all yer toys arrive at your front door !

IIRC, there's a "Sticky" concerning C&R FFL's round about here somewhere. Lots of threads about same floating around too.

Use advanced search, set preferences to "Show all threads" grab a snack and settle in.

Enjoy your stay. [smile]
Click to expand...

Here is one

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=104

26 pages it took a while to hammer through that one.
 
If you set UserCP to show MAXIMUM # of posts/page (40 IIRC), you don't have to wait to bring up 26 pages. It's only 13 pages [wink] the way my account is set up.
 
Thanks!

Just a quick thanks to everyone for such a quick response.

I will read all the information that comes with the C&R and make sure I understand it. I figured dealer was looking after himself, he did mention "I can sell you C&R rifles and handguns registered before 1998".

Now, let the collecting begin.

Regards,
Vorlons
 
Make sure you have a good lamp, a comfortable chair and a few snacks when you start reading... it's quite a package.

I looked up the section on "restrictions on Licensed Collector's Activities" and it says nothing about a 2 year time limit before being able to sell a new acquisition. It occurs to me that it was a dealer (one whom I trust, too) who mentioned that, and he went to look it up in HIS books, but couldn't find the section he was looking for. Now I know why... It bothered me that it seemed like the rules were written such that if you bought a gun and wanted to get rid of it to better your collection, you couldn't. Didn't seem to make sense. Now I know better.

The actual phrasing is "For example, if a collector acquires curios or relics for the purpose of sale rather than to enhance a collection, the collector would have to be licensed as a dealer in firearms under the GCA.", and that's about it. There's some more verbiage about not being authorized to engage in a firearms dealing business, but nothing like "you must keep a gun x years before you can sell it".
 
and the whole no-knock thing is bs, I have only heard of the atf wanting to check your bound book, and maybe a gun or two, they usally give you the option of meeting at the atf office or a neutral location. (coffe shop for bound book issues etc) they still have to go by the law for searching your home.
 
Wildweasel said:
and the whole no-knock thing is bs, I have only heard of the atf wanting to check your bound book, and maybe a gun or two, they usally give you the option of meeting at the atf office or a neutral location. (coffe shop for bound book issues etc) they still have to go by the law for searching your home.
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Really? I have nothing to hide, but I always thought they legal right to come into your house (peacefully). Doesn't bother me unless its in the middle of the night.
 
Producer said:
Really? I have nothing to hide, but I always thought they legal right to come into your house (peacefully). Doesn't bother me unless its in the middle of the night.
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The papers that come with the C&R say that if they BATF decides to check on you, they will make an arrangement to meet with you at your home or in their office. Nothing about unannounced visits.
 
LenS said:
If you set UserCP to show MAXIMUM # of posts/page (40 IIRC), you don't have to wait to bring up 26 pages. It's only 13 pages [wink] the way my account is set up.
Click to expand...

Is there a reason this maximum is so low? I've used other forums that let me set it to 100 posts/page.
 
I have had a c&r for 3 renewals, and not been audited yet. I have heard of one or two on the net, (ar15.com) and they just met at a local coffee shop and they just reviewed the book to make sure it was in order. they have to pull a search warrent to go into your house. If you had a regular FFL and the place of bussiness was listed as your house then they could do inspections. (anytime.) but as Mass has just about wiped out tabletop FFL's it is really no longer an issue. but like I said thatis for a regular FFL not C&R.
 
C&R Audit

About six months after I got my C&R, I got a call from the ATF to do an audit. I told him I just got my license and hadn't bought anything with it, which was true. He said it didn't matter, he still wanted to see my book. So we set up a time for him to see it. To make a long story short... he never showed up, after a few calls to the ATF, I found out he was on vaction. No shit! So I really laid into him on his voicemail. The following Monday I had a message on my machine from the agent who stood me up, saying I was allset. And no, he didn't apologize, he didn't even mention it.

Kurt
 
Got it, less then 2 weeks.

Just an update. I got my C&R in less then 2 weeks. Still waiting on the packet of information. Have been busy faxing out copies of the license.

Now, need to decide what to buy first. Think it is going to be a Yugo Mauser or SKS.

Vorlons.
 

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