Buying a gun in DC.

[LoginName]

It's going to be interesting seeing the response from Fenty and DC police when a fully operating FFL with a storefront opens in the city.

Given the current 'up yours' reaction to the Heller ruling, I predict a lot of headaches, hoops to jump through and harassment for any FFL daring to do business in the district.

WASHINGTON - The question isn't whether you'll be able to get a District permit to own a handgun. The question is: Will you be able to get a gun?

District residents will be able to start applying for permits to keep a handgun in the home as early as July 17, according to the District's acting Attorney General Peter Nickles.

But until a gun store opens in the city, anyone who wants to buy a gun is going to have a tough time.

Since there are no gun stores in the District of Columbia, residents wishing to own a gun will have to buy them in another state. But, you won't be able to transport the gun back into the District. It will have to be shipped to a federally licensed gun dealer in the city.

And therein lies the rub.

There are only six Federal Firearms Licensees in the District. WTOP contacted all six, and found only one is considering facilitating the transfers of handguns once the law changes.

The FFLs are held by Arena Stage, The Shakespeare Theater Company, Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center, The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, K S Supply and Cs Exchange Ltd.

Arena Stage and the Shakespeare Theater only have their FFLs to enable them to purchase guns as props for theatrical productions. According to their spokespersons, neither group owns a working gun, and neither plans on selling guns.

Josh Sugarman obtained his FFL about 15 years ago. Sugarman's group, the Violence Policy Center, is an anti-gun group that advocates for stricter gun regulations. Sugarman tells WTOP, he got the license as part of a research project, and despite numerous phone calls, he will not sell guns.

"The bloggers put my phone number out there, and people have been calling to ask how much I'll charge to transfer guns," Sugarman says.

The ATF isn't going to start selling guns in the District either.

That leaves the only two actual gun dealers of the six. K S Supply is owned by Harry Heng, who works out of his apartment in Northwest.

"I'm a jobber, a middle man," says Heng. "I never see the guns."

And he doesn't plan on seeing any now that the law is about to change.

"I've had a few calls from gun stores and individuals, but I won't be doing any business in the District," Heng tells WTOP.

That leaves Cs Exchange Ltd. Owned by Charles Sykes, Jr. who has been transferring handguns in the District since 1994.

"I sell to security firms and some police," Sykes says. "I'll be doing some transfers once the law changes, but I want to keep it very low key; very discreet."

Sykes has no plans to open a store. He'll continue to do business out of his Anacostia office. But he's not going to be easy to find. There's no sign on his office. In fact, he shares an office with a security firm for which he supplies guns. He's not listed in the Yellow Pages, and he takes his time returning voice mail, if you can track down his number.

As for how much Sykes will charge for transferring handguns?

"I haven't decided that yet." Sykes says, "We'll have to see."

So Sykes will be a potential handgun owner's only option, until gun stores begin to open in the District; and that could be a while. According to a spokesperson for the ATF, there are no pending applications for new FFLs.

The ATF is required by law to process applications within 60 days, but any gun store would have to be approved by the Chief of Police and meet all local zoning ordinances.

Therein lies yet another rub.

There are no zoning regulations governing where gun stores can locate in the District. They will have to be written, and that could take a while.

Once the logistics are all worked out, many stores may still take a wait-and-see approach to selling in the District. There are still lots of unknowns, such as: Who will be allowed to own a store? Who will be allowed to work there? And what will insurance rates be?

While city officials have said they want to keep D.C.'s gun laws as tough as the courts will allow, they say they have every intention of allowing gun stores to open.

"We can't very well keep someone from selling something that is legal to own," says Nickles.

ISSUES YET TO BE DECIDED

Before handguns start making their way into District homes, several questions need to be answered by District officials:

* What types of handguns will be allowed?

(Nickles and D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier have stated that automatic and semi-automatic handguns will not be allowed. The District currently defines semi-automatic as any gun that can fire 12 or more shots without being manually reloaded. If this standard is kept, it could wind up being challenged in court because the Supreme Court ruled you can not ban an "entire class" of guns.

The head of the police department's gun registration department, Det. Shelton, has testified before the D.C. Council that D.C.'s definition of a semi-automatic is so broad it would include virtually all guns that are loaded by a bottom-loading clip. Even guns that don't come with a 12-round clip would be illegal if they were capable of holding 12 rounds. While semi-automatics are the most popular option these days, the current law would only allow for revolvers.)

* Will ballistic fingerprinting of some type be required?

(Like most technology, this has its pros and cons. One thing is certain, according to police: If it is required it will slow down the permitting process.)

* What type of background checks will be required?

* Will training be required?

* Will you be able to transport your handgun to a shooting range?

(As the law stands now, you would not be able to.)

* Will trigger locks be required?

* Will you be able to keep the gun loaded?

* Will the gun have to be kept in a locked safe?

* Where will guns stores be allowed to open?

* Will the city allow gun ranges to open?

* How much will a gun permit cost?

* Will gun owners be required to re-register their guns every year?

(D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier recently told WTOP there were 36,000 handguns registered in the city before the gun ban and police don't know where most of them are.)

http://www.wtop.com/?sid=1437663&nid=695

I mentioned in another thread that a resident could apply for a C&R license and purchase a handgun that way (shipped right to their front door even ).

The choices would be very limited, but it's better than nothing and it would send a big 'up yours' right back at Fenty.

 

[tele_mark]

Looks like a big opportunity for someone willing to go through the process. It's going to take awhile for the unconstitutional damage done under 30+ years of their "leader's" hoplophobic incompetence to be undone. It's worth it, though, if for no other reason than it just warms the hell out of my heart when I think of the pants-pissing fear that the prospect of all their law-abiding citizens being armed this whole thing must be putting into the Constitution-hating officials down there.

 

[doobie]

We all just need to flood Josh Sugarman with calls asking if he will do a gun transfer for us.

 

[Raoul Duke]

We all just need to flood Josh Sugarman with calls asking if he will do a gun transfer for us.

That was my first thought.

 

[Scrivener]

NPR interviewed a DC councilman regarding the implementation of the ruling - the usual drivel to explain how its gun ban wasn't a complete and utter failure at preventing gun violence.

MORE interestingly, it had an interview with a man who had already located a suitable lot in the warehouse district with the specific intention of opening a gun store and range.

Godspeed to him!

 

[Raoul Duke]

MORE interestingly, it had an interview with a man who had already located a suitable lot in the warehouse district with the specific intention of opening a gun store and range.

Godspeed to him!

Indeed. Let's hope he has the requisite intestinal fortitude to handle the obstacles the DC City Council, and their ilk, will place before him.

 

[Garys]

NPR interviewed a DC councilman regarding the implementation of the ruling - the usual drivel to explain how its gun ban wasn't a complete and utter failure at preventing gun violence.

MORE interestingly, it had an interview with a man who had already located a suitable lot in the warehouse district with the specific intention of opening a gun store and range.

Godspeed to him!

He's going to need a good lawyer to get through all the BS the DC gummint is going to throw at him. No doubt, this will end up in court with the intention of the DC gummint being to drain his money before he can get the license.

I'll skip the obvious question of whether they would do this if it was a court ruling they agreed with.

 

[Len-2A Training]

We all just need to flood Josh Sugarman with calls asking if he will do a gun transfer for us.

He's already been "flooded". He was interviewed for one of the news articles I read. He admits to getting tons of phone messages and he also admitted that he won't return the calls and has NO INTENTION of selling any guns! [That last statement violates the BATFE rules for possession of an FFL, if someone wants to "dime him out".]

Indeed. Let's hope he has the requisite intestinal fortitude to handle the obstacles the DC City Council, and their ilk, will place before him.

Indeed! I've witnessed many a Zoning Board meeting where much lesser retailers were run over hot coals barefoot to get approvals. Turn-around on approvals in this area for almost any business/house renovations permit/etc. is 4-6 months.

They will string this guy along for a year or more is my prediction and make rules that make it financially non-feasible to proceed.

 

[Scrivener]

Watch for a change in the zoning laws to effectively prevent any retail firearms facility from being located w/i city limits.

Remember, you heard it here first!

 

[Garys]

Watch for a change in the zoning laws to effectively prevent any retail firearms facility from being located w/i city limits.

Remember, you heard it here first!

Wait! You're not suggesting that elected and appointed public employees would try to subvert a US Supreme Court decision, are you?

Just imagine the uproar if they blocked a permit to build a family planning clinic.

 

[Skald]

I think if that happens there would be another lawsuit against the city.

 

[drgrant]

He's already been "flooded". He was interviewed for one of the news articles I read. He admits to getting tons of phone messages and he also admitted that he won't return the calls and has NO INTENTION of selling any guns! [That last statement violates the BATFE rules for possession of an FFL, if someone wants to "dime him out".]

Len, not precisely. It depends on the terms under which BATFE issued him the FFL. There are some individuals, for instance, that have FFLs that clearly don't fulfill the usual "profit motive" requirements required of someone acting as a "dealer" but are still allowed to keep their license. For example, does anyone really think that the theatre that has an FFL really -ever- intended to sell firearms? There might be other entities which have an FFL but don't use it in the typical manner. BATFE seems to make a few allowances... except when they smell someone getting a Type-01 "just for the hell of it".

-Mike

 

[LoginName]

Len, not precisely. It depends on the terms under which BATFE issued him the FFL. There are some individuals, for instance, that have FFLs that clearly don't fulfill the usual "profit motive" requirements required of someone acting as a "dealer" but are still allowed to keep their license. For example, does anyone really think that the theatre that has an FFL really -ever- intended to sell firearms? There might be other entities which have an FFL but don't use it in the typical manner. BATFE seems to make a few allowances... except when they smell someone getting a Type-01 "just for the hell of it".

-Mike

Museums are one example where the "profit motive" doesn't apply (and museums with an FFL are out there).

(C1) Who can get a license? [Back]

ATF will approve the application if the applicant:

* Is 21 years of age or older;

* Is not prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing firearms or ammunition;

* Has not willfully violated the GCA or its regulations;

* Has not willfully failed to disclose material information or willfully made false statements concerning material facts in connection with his application;

* Has premises for conducting business or collecting; and

o The applicant certifies that:

1. the business to be conducted under the license is not prohibited by State or local law in the place where the licensed premises is located;

2. within 30 days after the application is approved the business will comply with the requirements of State and local law applicable to the conduct of the business;

3. the business will not be conducted under the license until the requirements of State and local law applicable to the business have been met;

4. the applicant has sent or delivered a form to the chief law enforcement officer where the premises is located notifying the officer that the applicant intends to apply for a license; and

5. secure gun storage or safety devices will be available at any place in which firearms are sold under the license to persons who are not licensees (“secure gun storage or safety device” is defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(34)).

[18 U.S.C. 923(d)(1), 27 CFR 478.47(b)]

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#c1

How the BATFE defines "collecting" is a mystery, but given the agencies history of bending/changing the rules/redefining things, it probably depends on what kind of mood the approving authority is in.

In Sugarmans/the VPCs case, the address for the licensee is in DC, but the firearms are stored in a safehouse in Virginia...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/other/NPRSemiAutoBan.html

So... they skirt the DC gun ban and don't have to contend with any zoning issues.