Broke a tap off in my Saiga!

hillman

hillman

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So I am converting my Saiga 7.62x39 to accept AK mags, and I got the bullet guide kit which came with a drill and tap.

Drilled through the trunion with no problems. Then I started the tap and broke it off...inside the hole, too deep to grab with needle nose pliers.

Any tips on getting that stinking tap out of the hole? Searching on the Saiga-12 forums pretty much leads me to believe the only way is to get a hardened steel nail punch and beat the crap out of it until it shatters or breaks enough to come out.

Can I just say that it is a heartsinking feeling when you do something like this... I need an UNDO button.
 
Well I am no expert, and I am not familiar with the kit your using but based on your description, could you use a smaller diameter drill to drill out the middle of the broken part and then use one of the extractor bits from Sears to unscrew the tap. I think the bits are called "Grab-it" or something like that

As a side note, if you do manage to get the tap out without messing up the project, use cutting oil and quarter turns on the (new) tap.

Good Luck, I built a screw build AK-47 that taught me some tough lessons about tapping.
 
Lucas McCain said:
They have special tap removers, They have fingers that fit into the flutes on the tap. here is an example http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=325-4867&PMPXNO=5809952&PARTPG=INLMK32
Click to expand...

+1

you can't drill out a tap. You might be able to EDM it out, but the tap is harder than any drill you have. The drill will walk and you'll be screwed

As the above poster said they make a tool with hardened fingers that will slide down the flutes and then you try to back the tap out
 
The above is correct, you cannot drill a tap, to hard. I have a set of tap extractors which MAY work if things aren't jambed up to bad, I know I destroyed one years ago, the smaller ones tend to be flimsy. send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.
 
Well... that sucks.

Cant' offer you any advice on how to solve the problem, but for anyone else tackling a similar project.., always use plenty of cutting oil, make sure your tap is aligned, go slowly, back off every few turns now and then (especially when it feels tight), and clean off any chips/shavings from the tap and the hole.

Those small diameter taps will snap like a senior citizens femur if care is not taken.
 
Thanks Manomet, but I am going to take my medicine and order an extractor and see if I can get it out.

I've never used a tap before and just didn't really know how brittle they could be. Now I know, hopefully I can salvage this and learn from it for next time.

Thanks for the extractor link and advice. Ordering right now, we'll see what happens.
 
I broke a tap in a rifle's receiver doing a sight installation. It took a combination of the tiny diamond tipped dremel bit (and my reading glasses) and a finger type tap remover from Brownells. I broke off the first set of fingers, so I chewed away as much of the middle of the tap as I could with the dremel before trying again.

Also, you might try either putting it in the freezer overnight or heating it to just above boiling. That might loosen things some.

Best of luck.
 
hillman said:
I've never used a tap before and just didn't really know how brittle they could be. Now I know, hopefully I can salvage this and learn from it for next time.
Click to expand...

did you use a lubricant frequently on the tap and did you back the tap off a c hair every 1/4 turn or so? Did you use a tap wrench and make sure the tap was going in the hole perfectly straight?

It's very important to back the tap off as you turn it in order to let the material you are cutting break away and fall out the bottom via the flutes.

If it is a "blind" hole, that being one where the tap doesn't run through the material and out the other side, besides having to use a bottoming tap which has different profile, you need to back the tap out of the hole and blow the chips out once in a while so the tap has room to move down the hole and cut threads to the desired depth.

Next lesson in "basic machine shop 101" : Helicoils are your friend!
 
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Is the material the tap is stuck in stainless or carbon steel? If its stainless this is an easy task, just go to radio chack and ask for a bottle of ferric chloride. It will eat the tap and not the stainless. I use this method for getting broken taps out of titanium. If its carbon steel, I think uou may need a carbide drill bit, which will be harder than the tap but just as brittle....
 
Yes you can drill a tap...using a carbide spade drill. However, I would not suggest it be done at home with a hand drill and a rookie operator.....
 
There are quite a few machine shops that have tap burning ability.
Electro Arc makes a machine that eats taps.
Its not a real cheap solution but it works and thats how machine shops have done it for years.
 
Glockaholic said:
did you use a lubricant frequently on the tap and did you back the tap off a c hair every 1/4 turn or so? Did you use a tap wrench and make sure the tap was going in the hole perfectly straight?

It's very important to back the tap off as you turn it in order to let the material you are cutting break away and fall out the bottom via the flutes.

If it is a "blind" hole, that being one where the tap doesn't run through the material and out the other side, besides having to use a bottoming tap which has different profile, you need to back the tap out of the hole and blow the chips out once in a while so the tap has room to move down the hole and cut threads to the desired depth.

Next lesson in "basic machine shop 101" : Helicoils are your friend!
Click to expand...

No sadly I did none of these because I did not properly do my research on this particular task. I've never considered myself a "handy" guy, but I really wanted to do this one myself. I could have paid to have the conversion done but just wanted the satisfaction of doing it myself. So I am now learning all about taps...

I ordered a finger type extractor, it's on it's way second day air, hoping this will work. Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions.
 
fjr05 said:
I would Dremel the tap down flush and JB Weld the bullet guide.
Click to expand...

The tap is down below the top of the hole already. What is this JB Weld you speak of?

My father is a welder by trade but I haven't yet asked him because he will hurt himself rolling his eyes at yet another example of my not inheriting his mechanical aptitude.
 
fjr05 said:
I would Dremel the tap down flush and JB Weld the bullet guide.
Click to expand...


You are taking the weld part of the name far too literally. JB Weld is not designed to hold two parts together, it has very little shear strength. It is designed for filling cracks in metal castings.
 
Please. Never again try to hand tap solid metal. Taps won't bend, even a little bit. Always have the part clamped down and chuck the tap in the drill press or milling machine chuck. Turn the chuck by hand. I you don't have the equipment, go to someone who does. Also, you need to use quality taps. Jack.
 
hillman said:
The tap is down below the top of the hole already. What is this JB Weld you speak of?

My father is a welder by trade but I haven't yet asked him because he will hurt himself rolling his eyes at yet another example of my not inheriting his mechanical aptitude.
Click to expand...

I also have many types of broken tap extractors, PM if you need help.
 
Taps are pretty brittle, if you need to you can always hit it with a punch and it should break apart, depending on the hole and threads you may have to helicoil it.
I have used the diamond dremel method to grind the most of the tap down and then shatter it and remove the rest.
 
Someone on the Saiga-12 forum did in fact just suggest that I have someone weld the bullet guide in place.

I wonder, have I found an application that duct tape will not solve? Am I the first?
 
Sound advice so far.

This statement needs addressing though:

hillman said:
...the only way is to get a hardened steel nail punch and beat the crap out of it until it shatters or breaks enough to come out.
Click to expand...

you can't shatter it. You'll just break something else. However, you can try to use a punch to tap the tap around to unscrew it. Don't bash the crap out of it. You'll just make it worse. Get some lube in there too and let it soak.

It'd try the tap remover first though.
 
madmarc0 said:
Taps are pretty brittle, if you need to you can always hit it with a punch and it should break apart, depending on the hole and threads you may have to helicoil it.
I have used the diamond dremel method to grind the most of the tap down and then shatter it and remove the rest.
Click to expand...

I commented against this method above. Have you done this? I haven't and it doesn't give me a good feeling? Maybe I'm wrong.
 
least destructive is the tap removal tool and patience

after that it is EDM Electrical Discharge Machining

Hitting the tap to get it to break... would more than likely cause the tap to distort the area around the hole it is broken off in as you beat it with the hammer and punch before the tap gave up the ghost, unless it is a serious piece of metal that won't distort.

Just out of curiosity what size tap was it?
 
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it says 6 32 on it. It's the one that Dinzag Arms sends with the bullet guide kit.

I am refraining from beating the crap out of it. I have an extraction tool on the way, probably get here in a couple days. I will just have to be patient until then. If the hole is too messed up my father says he can weld the piece on. He's been welding for 40+ years.
 
I'd also put a hair dryer to the area before you go at it with the extraction tool in hopes you might get a little expansion to take the pressure off.

Edit: I just looked at the website and there is no way that tap is going to come out of there by beating it out. In preparation for the extraction I'd be shooting oil into that hole
 
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