Bill filed to Extend LTC & FID Processing Time

[DemonChronicles]

Rep. Heroux will be looking in on this thread, so if you have some good (sane) ideas, spell 'em out.

LenS,

I did mention to him that I didn't believe that the local PD receives a dime of that application fee, but I also was truthful that I could be wrong and would check on it. Thank you for clearing that up.

I think that is an unfortunate thing, the local PD should get a portion of that fee.

I forwarded him the link to this thread:

Thank you for this. Please cut and paste my responses to you. And let people know they can call me to discuss this.

Cordially,
Rep. Paul Heroux
Second Bristol District (Attleboro, less Ward 3B)
Room 236
State House
Boston, MA 02133
617-722-2430 x8475 (Boston office)
508-639-9511 (District office)

 

[EC1]

Since $75 of that $100 goes to the state, and the other $25 goes to the town's General Fund (none goes to the PD) the local PD has no financial incentive wrt money involved in the licensing process. It literally cost them money to do this . . . and this was done by the Governor (at the time) and Legislature with no input from citizens or police.

Just putting that out there so people know where the money really goes.

For the time that it really takes for the locals to do their job, I'd gladly donate an hour of their salary to process my application and that would give them something of a tip above their salary.

 

[PaulD]

sent

Rep. Heroux,

I know you've already heard from others on this, but I'm going to add to what they've already stated.

The state has created a problem that they can't cope with and simply increasing the amount of time they have to cope with it won't solve the problem. The Heller decision confirmed that law abiding citizens have a right to own a handgun. The commonwealth has created a situation where law abiding citizens have to pay $100 every 6 years to be granted a license to exercise that right and then they get the added insult of the state not being able to process that license in the time frame they committed to. Creating a statute that extends that time frame is simply further delaying (really denying) a right.

As a law abiding citizen who's made to feel like a criminal by the LTC process, you'll forgive me if I feel little sympathy for the licensing authorities who are overwhelmed and can't do their jobs as required by statute.

Fix the problem. Don't make it worse.

Regards,
PaulD

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I think Rep. Heroux's bill is well intentioned and I applaud him for listening to his constituents, espcially on this issue. It's refreshing.

However, it does miss the mark in a few ways. The current forty-day requirement should be more than sufficient for a PD to do their due diligence on firearms licensing. They're able to determine most of this information in the time it takes to book an arrest-tee, so licensing shouldn't be that much different.

The real issue isn't 40 days vs. 90 days vs. 20 days or whatever. The real issue is that many police departments don't regard firearms licensing as an important part of their duties and not something that is intimately connected to the ability of their residents to exercise a fundamental right.

I'm not actually in favor of imposing specific penalties on a police chief for failing to act upon license applications within the required time frame. Rather, failure to act upon license applications within a reasonable time frame should be see for what it is: the denial, at least temporarily, of a fundamental right.

When a PD department refuses to issue a demonstration permit to groups like NORML, that is exactly what what the ACLU takes to court - a violation of the group's fundamental rights under the First Amendment. This is the end point - licensing implicates a fundamental right and should be treated as such.

 

[hv55maxx]

Another question. Why did my NH p and r come back in two weeks? What's so different and why is it quicker when I don't live there (please refrain from because its freedom land blah blah blah, looking for actual info)

 

[PaulD]

I've had an email exchange with Rep. Heroux and I concur with Eddie's thoughts. He seems honest and genuinely on our side.

He also has a separate bill extending the grace period to 180 days and that will likely make it out of committee in the omnibus bill.

Also, I agree with Knuckle Dragger above on the local police not seeing this as a priority. It's essentially an unfunded mandate from Beacon Hill. That said, many chiefs have asked for the discretion so they've brought it on themselves.

 

[warwickben]

I know this mite sound stupid .
But when you change your address in mass they send you a sticker to put on your drivers license or at least when I did that's what I got in the mail not sure if there still doing that.

How about the police do some thing like this when you try to renew? Basically yeah the card has expired but the sticker just to show your waiting for the new one .

 

[ntomsw]

Another question. Why did my NH p and r come back in two weeks? What's so different and why is it quicker when I don't live there (please refrain from because its freedom land blah blah blah, looking for actual info)

That I think is also a major problem.

When I lived in MA, mine also came back in 2-3 weeks. Some states, like Maine, do take like 60+ days. But if NH can process a nonres that fast, the state if MA should also be able to process them that fast.

 

[MikeInMA]

Do we get an extended "grace period" too or do we just reapply on the birthday before the year of expiration?

 

[W.E.C]

like jim wallace said: they are slow walking =foot draging=stonewalling=ignoring=filibustering, or as the dems say in light of the shutdown "holding the people hostage"

that doesn't even address the
[h=4]Arbitrary and capricious aspect[/h]that the same person can get restricted in one town and his twin brother in another with the same non-record gets full rights.

 

[terraformer]

However, it does miss the mark in a few ways. The current forty-day requirement should be more than sufficient for a PD to do their due diligence on firearms licensing. They're able to determine most of this information in the time it takes to book an arrest-tee, so licensing shouldn't be that much different.

The real issue isn't 40 days vs. 90 days vs. 20 days or whatever. The real issue is that many police departments don't regard firearms licensing as an important part of their duties and not something that is intimately connected to the ability of their residents to exercise a fundamental right.

If the rep is paying attention to this thread, see this I just quoted. The problem is not 40 days, half of the state's PDs issue within that time frame most of the time. It's that the PDs who don't are A) intentionally trying to limit access to the license (like the ones who think there are too many LTCs in their towns) or B) who see licensing as a burden they don't get any benefit from and push it off, burying the work under the stack of crap to do when all of the important crap they want to do is done.

If the rep wants to fix this problem, make license applications an online experience that the PDs only get involved in for background checks and fingerprints.

 

[exo]

I know this mite sound stupid .
But when you change your address in mass they send you a sticker to put on your drivers license or at least when I did that's what I got in the mail not sure if there still doing that.

How about the police do some thing like this when you try to renew? Basically yeah the card has expired but the sticker just to show your waiting for the new one .

The RMV doesn't mail address change stickers anymore.

 

[ntomsw]

Of course politicians are on your side. That's their job. They tell you whatever you want to hear. I don't believe a thing that comes out of any of their mouths.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It should be indefinite . . . until you obtain your new LTC! That would unwad the panties of the dayladies who worry about running out of grace period and still having guns in their homes.

I met/spoke with Rep. Paul Heroux after the hearing Monday night and he gave me his card. I think I'll suggest that to him and make use of his Email address.

In the modern era of always available databases, there is no need for an expiration date. An LTC's validityis verified each time a purchase is made (including private ones with E-FA10's), and any police officer with concerns about an LTC can obtain pretty much real time information on its validity.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've had an email exchange with Rep. Heroux and I concur with Eddie's thoughts. He seems honest and genuinely on our side.

He also has a separate bill extending the grace period to 180 days and that will likely make it out of committee in the omnibus bill.

Also, I agree with Knuckle Dragger above on the local police not seeing this as a priority. It's essentially an unfunded mandate from Beacon Hill. That said, many chiefs have asked for the discretion so they've brought it on themselves.

An Omnibus gun bill is DOA unless it has lots of new bans in it! That was the problem with the prior GOAL bill, it tried to eat the elephant in one bite and that will never work in MA.

Yup, here's how the finances work (disincentive for the PD to act):

- They collect $100 and turn over the money to the town treasurer,
- They get a bill from CJIS for $75/applicant and town treasurer pays the state their share,
- $25 goes into the General Fund for the town, which can be used NEXT YEAR (not this year, a statutory issue), usually with a 60-75% to the schools and the remainder doled out to all the rest of town government. That $25 is not treated as "extra money" but reduces whatever tax increases would be levied on real estate in the town for the following year. Thus, no incentive for the PD to do anything with applications, it is a true burden to them . . . but they do love "control" and don't want to give that up.

I met with my town treasurer with the idea of creating a revolving fund for the $25 town portion. Revolving funds can be used by the department which maintains them. He checked with the state and they have an "approved list" of what revolving funds can be created and it would be illegal to create one for license fees! So, great idea but it won't fly. I honestly feel that it should have been a 50-50 split with the town, as it was prior to the Gun Control Act of 1998, but the law was changed to give most of the money to the state instead.

All the financial info above has been vetted thru my town treasurer as correct. For 39 years I've been one of the town meeting members who has scrutinized our town budget annually and voted on every one of the department budgets, so I have a pretty good layman's idea of how finances work in a town.

-------------

To Rob (and Rep. Heroux):

There is another way that background checks can be run (most in minutes), but that is not the "authorized way" for LTCs/FIDs! After discussing the licensing process (the sticky I posted) and my Wife's recent experience with her renewal Michaela told me that my PD apparently uses this alternate method to expedite the background checks.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I would like to offer an amendment. If after 90 days the issuing authority has not issued or notified of denial in writing citing the reason, the issuing authority SHALL issue the license as applied for.

If they can't get it done in 3 months, then that is a deliberate effort to discourage applicants.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Interesting. Now the processing period is as long as the grace period.

Makes a lot of ****ing sense only if you actually don't want people to have permits.

 

[OfficerObie59]

The real issue isn't 40 days vs. 90 days vs. 20 days or whatever. The real issue is that many police departments don't regard firearms licensing as an important part of their duties and not something that is intimately connected to the ability of their residents to exercise a fundamental right.

Agreed.

However, I think we should remember most chiefs would much rather have the authority that comes with the ability to license, as the MACOPA plank on the issue has made clear.

In that event, they need to be bound by the law they want in place.

 

[Artifact]

They increased gun laws in Massachusetts and most Mass gun owners moved to New Hampshire.
They increased gun laws in New Hampshire and most NH gun owners moved to Vermont.
They increased gun laws in Vermont and most VT gun owners moved to Maine.
They increased gun laws in Maine ad most Maine gun owners moved to [insert your favorite state]............

at the end there was no States left and no-one to speak on behalf of the gun owners.

So then what are you advocating? Everyone in MA moves? Everyone in MA gives up and sells their guns or gives up and doesn't comply? Everyone storms the state house and occupies it?

We get it. The MA politicians suck in an extreme manner. However, if you're not going to be constructive or supportive, don't post crap that we already know. Nobody needs to hear "your efforts are futile" for the millionth time.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I missed out on a sweet deal on a revolver during the 100 or so days I waited for my renewal a few months ago.
An FFL refused to sell to me while my license was expired,(and before the grace period had begun) even though the renewal was in progress. I believe this is the biggest reason for the long delays.

Does not compute. If your license is expired, but you reapplied when your previous license was still active, then you WERE under the grace period rules when you tried to but the revolver. Don't act like it is the sellers fault you couldn't make the purchase, MIRCS will not allow it to happen whatsoever. The FFL followed the rule there.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Does not compute. If your license is expired, but you reapplied when your previous license was still active, then you WERE under the grace period rules when you tried to but the revolver. Don't act like it is the sellers fault you couldn't make the purchase, MIRCS will not allow it to happen whatsoever. The FFL followed the rule there.

He could have paid for it and had the dealer hold it until he got his LTC. Perfectly legal and something that the dealer can do.

 

[billmelater]

Does not compute. If your license is expired, but you reapplied when your previous license was still active, then you WERE under the grace period rules when you tried to but the revolver. Don't act like it is the sellers fault you couldn't make the purchase, MIRCS will not allow it to happen whatsoever. The FFL followed the rule there.

I had re-applied several months before expiration and was in the grace period.
I wasn't faulting the FFL for not selling to me.
I was saying that I think the departments that don't want people having guns will stall as long as possible because they know you won't be able to buy any during the grace period.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

That $25 is not treated as "extra money" but reduces whatever tax increases would be levied on real estate in the town for the following year.

1. Have you ever known of a town that reduced a property tax increase because of LTC fees?

2. I do not believe that the amount taken in from LTC fees counts towards the statutory taxation limit, and thus, the collection of LTC fees does not count towards the maximum taxes collectible without an override under prop 2.5.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

He could have paid for it and had the dealer hold it until he got his LTC. Perfectly legal and something that the dealer can do.

Yup!

 

[Mudfish]

First off, it is refreshing to have a Rep at least listening.

As far as I can see, none of this impacts the wait time for even applying. That was what got me most fired up in my process. Once I applied I got my license in 8 weeks. Well beyond 40 days. but not enough to make me crazy. What aggravated me was that it took 3 months just to get an appointment to apply. I only got the appointment after I started making some noise otherwise I have no idea how long the wait would have been. All this was well before the craziness of the last year. The 40 day clock didn't even start ticking until I was 84 days into the process!

 

[DemonChronicles]

Sorry to hear Mudfish.

As the example in my email to Rep. Heroux, my friend Mark lives in Worcester. He went to turn in his application the 1st week of February and was informed he couldn't and that he had to "schedule" a fingerprint/interview appointment.

That appointment was scheduled for....THE 1ST WEEK OF JUNE!!!!!

He played along and went with it. He went to the appointment, got fingerprinted/interviewed and turned in his application at that time with his payment.

Here it is, December 19th and he IS STILL WAITING!!!!!

Even if we take away the 4 months he waited for the "appointment", he has still been waiting for 6 months (his total time is +10 months!!).

It's a friggen' crime and there is no excuse for this amount of time to go by.

 

[warwickben]

There was one guy that was waiting over a year after a few months wait on his appointment . I forget what happen to that guy. His post was insane about the wait for just the appointment .


I called Tewksbury. Got a appointment a month later . Ltc 8-9 weeks later like they said. My brother got a appointment the day before me and got his ltc 2 weeks after me . He moved to Lowell I wish him good luck when he had to renew. Can they restrict you when u move to a red town ?

 

[yanici]

There was one guy that was waiting over a year after a few months wait on his appointment . I forget what happen to that guy. His post was insane about the wait for just the appointment .


I called Tewksbury. Got a appointment a month later . Ltc 8-9 weeks later like they said. My brother got a appointment the day before me and got his ltc 2 weeks after me . He moved to Lowell I wish him good luck when he had to renew. Can they restrict you when u move to a red town ?

I called for renewal in Tewksbury in July, got Oct. appt., been 10 weeks since my appt. and counting. Total from time of call is now 22 weeks. Not a paradise here.

 

[warwickben]

I called for renewal in Tewksbury in July, got Oct. appt., been 10 weeks since my appt. and counting. Total from time of call is now 22 weeks. Not a paradise here.

I hope it's better by 2018 fingers crossed . Wish you luck tho.

 

[edhead35]

Can they restrict you when u move to a red town ?

They don't typically mess with your existing LTC but they can restrict you on renewal as it is new every time.