oldguy68
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Have you messaged the seller directly? They may have no clue that it's a fake. Or proof that it's real.I just posted this thread as a warning to others.
So no one here goes posting what a great collector grade M1 they bought and find out the stock and possibly other parts are not "original" to this rifle.
There is no barrel throat reading either.
I would avoid this rifle for the lack of truth in the listing.
If you want an M1, buy one from the CMP or a known seller.
Any other listing has a high chance of being worth less than the seller was making it out to be.
You also avoid the problem of you knowingly selling a fake rifle.
The M1 Garand is like a German Luger in regards to fakes.
Own a Death's Head Luger. Probably a fake...
Collector grade is a turn off for me.I believe his ad had enough clues as to what his intent was.
Certainly that stamp is crisp enough to bear careful consideration, but looking at it closely I don't think it can 100% be determined a fake from the photo. I have a 1903 National Match made in 1933, with all the papers and provenance. Most of its stamps are in pretty good shape. No, it didn't go to war but it saw regular use in match shooting and still does today. Take a look at that circle-P proof on this particular M1 in the listing. That one is pretty deep and sharp too. Might just be a softer blank of walnut? Do you see folks faking the circle-P proof marks?I just posted this thread as a warning to others.
So no one here goes posting what a great collector grade M1 they bought and find out the stock and possibly other parts are not "original" to this rifle.
There is no barrel throat reading either.
I would avoid this rifle for the lack of truth in the listing.
If you want an M1, buy one from the CMP or a known seller.
Any other listing has a high chance of being worth less than the seller was making it out to be.
You also avoid the problem of you knowingly selling a fake rifle.
The M1 Garand is like a German Luger in regards to fakes.
Own a Death's Head Luger. Probably a fake...
Have you messaged the seller directly? They may have no clue that it's a fake. Or proof that it's real.
Some people pass knowledge of it being something, because that's what they were sold on.
I appreciate this thread, because sharing knowledge of fakes is invaluable. I've bought some rifles that were something there were not. I shrug it off and enjoy them anyways.
Still not seeing a 'gotcha' moment here regarding that cartouche.SA/GAW | The M1 Garand
Look the bottom of his letter "S" and how it is the same size as the top part of the letter.
Next look at his letter "G" and compare it to the ones on the sight listed above.
Only reason I mentioned the throat reading was he left it out.
Most people buying a Collector grade would want to know what it as.
Nope, we're not in agreement!Another clear fake!
Sorry Mountain, but we are not in agreement.
It's inspector stamp indicates it is an original stock from Springfield armory. That's his initials. The vast majority of M1s have rearsenalled GI stocks, or new wood from the cmp. All are nice. But original wood to the rifle is more valuable.So I will ask the question, why is this particular stock so desirable, enough so that there is a whole market of creating fakes?
Any stock,gun,sword,holster,etc is worth more if it has the makers mark,inspectors mark,and any other mark it had when it was new or reworked.So I will ask the question, why is this particular stock so desirable, enough so that there is a whole market of creating fakes?
What are you saying is different about the G. Is it the width in relationship to it's height? Generally speaking I'm suspicious of any in this nice of shape...Questionable stock marking (Top picture). Look at the letter "G" shape compared to the bottom photos and how sharp the stamp is compared to the cannon stamp.
Vs a couple original stock markings (Bottom pictures).
View attachment 452347
Your use of original vs correct is opposite of how collectors use those two terms. An "original" part has to be "correct" as it came on the rifle. You can't have an original non correct component.JFC you guys are getting hung up on the collector grade comment. Here's part of the listing, lets parse it shall we?
"As far as I can tell it has all original Springfield parts. (OK this says original parts, that does not necessarily correct parts for the receiver, simply that they are not repro springfield parts) The muzzle measures a 1, stock has all original SA cartouches which are crisp and clean (that's definitive, no parsing that one); stock is in excellent condition and contains original WWII era cleaning kit. This garand is easily a top collector garand." (THIS DOES NOT MENTION CMP NOR ANY CMP GRADE, SIMPLY ITS A 'COLLECTOR')
Your use of original vs correct is opposite of how collectors use those two terms. An "original" part has to be "correct" as it came on the rifle. You can't have an original non correct component.
Ok I understand what you are saying. Some guys are really good at matching wear etc. I'm not yet. To me that cartouche looks good, just too good is always a reason to at least question it.True you can't have an original non-correct rifle but I think you can have original parts that are not necessarily correct to the rifle since repro parts exist (check Numrich). I think its different from saying the rifle is all original but it is a fine line certainly.
Garands can be a real mess since they did not have indivual parts ID to serial numberTrue you can't have an original non-correct rifle but I think you can have original parts that are not necessarily correct to the rifle since repro parts exist (check Numrich). I think its different from saying the rifle is all original but it is a fine line certainly.
Yeah take away the going rate for ammo, clips, bandoleers and such the rifle cost comes down and with your average CMP service grade showing up here for $1200+ on a flip......Certainly that stamp is crisp enough to bear careful consideration, but looking at it closely I don't think it can 100% be determined a fake from the photo. I have a 1903 National Match made in 1933, with all the papers and provenance. Most of its stamps are in pretty good shape. No, it didn't go to war but it saw regular use in match shooting and still does today. Take a look at that circle-P proof on this particular M1 in the listing. That one is pretty deep and sharp too. Might just be a softer blank of walnut? Do you see folks faking the circle-P proof marks?
The seller did post pics of the op rod and bolt #'s, so those could be a way to do a quick check on matching potential. If those are off, you already know it's a typical mixmaster. If they line up, it's worth closer examination.
Since when is lack of a barrel throat reading a red flag? First time I've heard of that. He does give a muzzle reading.
I do think the 'top collector grade' statement is a bit of hyperbole and perhaps it's fair to say that folks should use caution when paying a premium for 'collector' quality. However, recommending to avoid the listing is uncalled for unless you have clear and irrefutable evidence it's a fake. Would have been better to simply reach out to the seller, ask questions, and if warranted request that the seller reword the listing. Considering all the ammo and accessories included, the price is not horrible. Compare against some of the ridiculous winning bids for CMP auctions.
The thin and tallness between a known real cartouche and how short and fatter his "G" is.What are you saying is different about the G. Is it the width in relationship to it's height? Generally speaking I'm suspicious of any in this nice of shape...
Thanks. Always learning. I'm now going to have to dig my GAW cartouched stock out of my safe for your review!The thin and tallness between a know real cartouche and how short and fatter his "G" is.
His "S" is suspicious, because a real cartouche is smaller at the top of the "S" and larger at the bottom of the "S".