[B]crossing a picket line[/B]

[K-DUB]

I already addressed the issue of the Dems being pro illegal immigration and the question of union vs "free market" wages was really not on topic in that case but I really don't think my pay would be that much different either way. By the way, you're a feisty one I like that!

If you could fathom how feisty I am, you'd sh*t your pants.

You didn't answer the question, you merely posed a question (about McCain's suckitude) of your own to avoid the topic. Either way. Enjoy your benefits & stuff. Just don't pretend that you're not contributing to the anti-gun, anti-freedom politicians. You are.

 

[cekim]

OK...

Dispute any of these facts:

But, but, but all of those are devastating to S&W's case...

Unions are another example of "feel good politics" gone wrong. Collective bargaining is fine in a private setting. If workers as a group decide to put pressure on management - fine - that's what consumers do when they refuse to buy a product in large numbers.

It's when the government steps in and gives them more power than they deserve and strips incoming workers of a choice as to whether to join the union or not...

IMO, there's a reason that unions and the mafia have such a deeply interwoven past. For the most part unions have operated as a protection racket... Perfect fit for the Mafia...

If you are afraid to compete on the merit of your skil, talent and effort then this isn't the right country for you.

 

[HTRN]

well guys, he's convinced me. . .


anyone know of a union sales job (I'm looking to change jobs soon). You know, one where I don't have to work as hard, but make the same money as a top performer?

No Kidding, why should the hot-shot who busts his butt 24/7 to blow his number away get paid more than a "seasoned" person whom doesn't care to work as hard?

Unions are silly unless you don't want to work hard for valued compensation.
If I own a shop that unionizes, I will fire them all and shut down the shop. It will be written in to the by-laws of the company. A nice poison-pill.

 

[S&WM&P9]

OK...

Dispute any of these facts:

• You pay a significant amount of your weekly pay (union dues) to an organization that continually supports anti-gun candidates.
• You pay a significant amount of your weekly pay (union dues) to an organization that has historically paid lots of money to the Mafia.
• You have no more control control of what your union dues pay for than I do of what my taxes pay for, even though I pay way less taxes than you pay union dues.
• Even though you claim not to support anti gun candidates or the Mafia, you have no control over where your union dues (in addition to your state taxes) go.
• Even if you move to a new state, if you stay in the union, you will continue to voluntarily pay people that want to take my guns away.
• You receive pay and benefits above market value because you belong to an organization that threatens American capitalist ventures with Marxist work stoppages and picket line intimidation while knowing that you're paid more than non-union workers that do the same job as you.

Are any of these non-factual?

My Union dues are 61 per month so that's $15.25 per week (not a large amount of my pay) I live in NH so I pay no state income tax, lastly we have never gone on strike since I started with my company in 1998. Consider yourself disputed!

 

[HTRN]

For the most part unions have operated as a protection racket... Perfect fit for the Mafia...

And the government...

 

[LTCRN]

would you cross one?

I'm probably going to go out on strike in less than 2 weeks, I will be picketing on St. Patrick's Day. We union members, are tired of being treated like garbage, having benefits taken away from us, and having to pay for incompetent management's decisions. If the decision makers make the wrong decision again, approx. 33% of the company, over 400 essential workers,will be walking. I have no problem with non union employees crossing the line, they have no protection from moronic decision makers and are "at - will" employees who can be fired at any time for any reason. Any union memberwho does business with my current employer, regardless of what union they represent, would never think of crossing the line and we already have their backing / support and they will be walking the line with us on St. Paddy's Day.

 

[EddieCoyle]

OK... Look Pal, gloves off...

You pay money to a corrupt organization that supports anti-gun candidates. Whether you personally 'support' them or not doesn't matter. You can scream the 2nd Amendment from your rooftop 15 times per day, but you've negated it with your actions. You are paying them money from your paycheck because you belong to the union. It doesn't matter where you live - taxes are taken from people at the end of a gun, but you pay your union dues voluntarily.

You've as much as stated that because of the union, you received health care benefits unavailable to the regular working guy. Congratulations! You're on welfare. Yeah, you work, but you get more benefits than a market-level worker.

You are a communist and apparently, proud of it.

 

[K-DUB]

they have no protection from moronic decision makers and are "at - will" employees who can be fired at any time for any reason.

Isn't that how it SHOULD be? Are you actually against being paid (or consequently NOT paid/fired for non-performance) for your production, & not just b/c you have some seniority?

 

[S&WM&P9]

The unanswered question (By EC) is:


Is there an answer?

Based on what I know, I really don't think my earning potential would be very different.

 

[cekim]

The unanswered question (By EC) is:

Would you make the same in an open market or do you do better as a result of being in the union?

Is there an answer?

I think many do a disservice to themselves when they fail to also consider whether in the case that union worker makes more if this impacts the long term viability of the company. Witness our auto industry failing because of the success of their collective bargaining in getting the companies to sign agreements they could not fund in the long term. Now everyone loses...

 

[HTRN]

I think many do a disservice to themselves when they fail to also consider whether in the case that union worker makes more if this impacts the long term viability of the company. Witness our auto industry failing because of the success of their collective bargaining in getting the companies to sign agreements they could not fund in the long term. Now everyone loses...

The sweet irony is that the consumer will still ultimately win. The car makers should have been allowed to fail, we would have a much better product now (12 months postmortem) and for far less $$.

It will still happen, it will now just take longer.

I hope Toyota / Nissan come up with a nice 3/4 ton truck. I would be proud to own a nice competitive product that was manufactured by non-union workers. I know most Toyota are now union made tho. Too bad.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Are you aware of the fact that the last Republican candidate for President was a co-author and stood shoulder to shoulder with Ted Kennedy on immigration reform and amnesty for illegal immigrants? Why don't you back up your facts?

Who the hell here has thrown support at the latest Republican candidate?

Stay on topic. You are paid more than market value because your group threatens legitimate businesses than if you just competed on your own merits.

 

[EddieCoyle]

One more time, or STFU:

Would you make the same in an open market or do you do better as a result of being in the union?

 

[S&WM&P9]

OK... Look Pal, gloves off...

You pay money to a corrupt organization that supports anti-gun candidates. Whether you personally 'support' them or not doesn't matter. You can scream the 2nd Amendment from your rooftop 15 times per day, but you've negated it with your actions. You are paying them money from your paycheck because you belong to the union. It doesn't matter where you live - taxes are taken from people at the end of a gun, but you pay your union dues voluntarily.

You've as much as stated that because of the union, you received health care benefits unavailable to the regular working guy. Congratulations! You're on welfare. Yeah, you work, but you get more benefits than a market-level worker.

You are a communist and apparently, proud of it.

And you are an IDIOT, and probably can't help it! You knowingly pay taxes every paycheck to one of the most anti 2nd. Amendment, Socialist states in the USA!!!! If you were really the advocate you seem to think you are you would pack up your family and leave like I did 6 years ago. And as far as my pay and benefits are concerned I earn every penny.

 

[K-DUB]

This is getting stupid.

 

[EddieCoyle]

And you are an IDIOT, and probably can't help it! You knowingly pay taxes every paycheck to one of the most anti 2nd. Amendment, Socialist states in the USA!!!! If you were really the advocate you seem to think you are you would pack up your family and leave like I did 6 years ago. And as far as my pay and benefits are concerned I earn every penny.

Super. One more time....

Would you make the same in an open market or do you do better as a result of being in the union?

 

[S&WM&P9]

Isn't that how it SHOULD be? Are you actually against being paid (or consequently NOT paid/fired for non-performance) for your production, & not just b/c you have some seniority?

Actually K-Dub I have a confession to make, I have been laid off since Dec. 4 and unless I am able to go back to school and get into another line of work I will most likely be a non union driver somewhere. I think you're pretty cool though!

 

[EddieCoyle]

Actually K-Dub I have a confession to make, I have been laid off since Dec. 4 and unless I am able to go back to school and get into another line of work I will most likely be a non union driver somewhere. I think you're pretty cool though!

You're collectin though, from the government, right? The one I'm paying? Cool. You're welcome.

 

[z0mbi]

Sorry to interrupt... just wanted to pop in and say awesome thread! Would read again!

BTW, unions suck.

 

[S&WM&P9]

Super. One more time....

Would you make the same in an open market or do you do better as a result of being in the union?

OK, maybe I'm not understanding the question I answered several times. Explain exactly what you are referring to for the dumb, lazy Teamster. And please go really slow!

 

[EddieCoyle]

And you are an IDIOT.

No. You're an idiot. Seriously.

 

[Admin]

You could not have been a union member for very long or maybe you were not paying attention. The wages for union and non union truckers is pretty close and in some cases there are non union drivers making more than union drivers. Which brings me to another point, the reason that most non union trucking companies offer decent pay and bennies is that they have to compete with union wages. Otherwise they would be more than happy to pay their drivers low wages and sub standard benefits. (ever hear of Walmart?) And for all you people who are so anti union, go to China where labor unions are strongly opposed and see how much you earn there while working in sub standard, unhealthy, inhumane conditions for 12 to 15 hours a day. You probably think your boss just loves you and that your company really gives a rat's rump about you and your family don't you. And as far as the idiotic comments so many of you like to throw around about the "unskilled union workers" you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Remember, It is far better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

I can't believe I didn't get a chance to reply to our resident commie before this was closed. Oh well I just did.