• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Athol, MA Appleseed Feb 7th & 8th

I can tell you this;

Its gonna be C-O-L-D. There will be a good amount of frozen snow on the ground. The snow wont be soft unless it snows a couple of days before this event. Expect it to be at least nice & crunchy, possibly iced over.

Again; dress warmly and in layers.

No problem, just have to man up boys!

I was telling a buddy of mine about the shoot and how cold and icy it might be, he is a Marine and was not pleased with my complaining.[smile]

He told me to go sit in 6 inches of water (on top of ice) on a 30 deg day with freezing rain and no Gore-tex for 12 hours, then I could complain.
 
I was telling a buddy of mine about the shoot and how cold and icy it might be, he is a Marine and was not pleased with my complaining.[smile]

He told me to go sit in 6 inches of water (on top of ice) on a 30 deg day with freezing rain and no Gore-tex for 12 hours, then I could complain.
Oh, so he's coming to the shoot? Might want to warn him that it won't be that warm - I don't expect it be that close to freezing! [smile]
 
No he won't be coming, he is not really a "gun guy".

I am just hoping there will be no wind and if there is any precipitation it will be snow and not rain or freezing rain. I have just about the worst luck when it comes to weather and outdoor activities so if the weather is bad you guys can blame me.
 
No he won't be coming, he is not really a "gun guy".

I am just hoping there will be no wind and if there is any precipitation it will be snow and not rain or freezing rain. I have just about the worst luck when it comes to weather and outdoor activities so if the weather is bad you guys can blame me.

And we will! [devil]

I am mentally preparing myself for the worst. I'm also going to buy some good cold weather gear next week.
 
I am so bringing my shooting mat!!!!! Thermals, Flannel lined Jeans, wind and water proof outer pants, ski jacket, fleece lined hat - Check!

My problem is gloves. I have really good ski gloves except they are multiple layered and the trigger finger will be to big to get into the trigger guard. I need to find a glove for my shooting hand that will allow me to feel the two stage trigger and still keep warm. I'm thinking I'll need to get some of those hand warmers as well.
 
My problem is gloves. I have really good ski gloves except they are multiple layered and the trigger finger will be to big to get into the trigger guard. I need to find a glove for my shooting hand that will allow me to feel the two stage trigger and still keep warm. I'm thinking I'll need to get some of those hand warmers as well.


Me too. I went out today for about 2 hours. My trigger finger was the only part I couldn't keep warm. Picking up .22lr cartridges off the bench was a bit tricky.

My LTR ran great. I ran it dry (no lube) as recommended. Not a single hickup using CCI Standard Velocity or Mini-Mag HPs. I need to figure out which is more accurate with it.
 
Speaking of gloves, when I'm out Cross Counrty skiing I'll bring an extra pair of gloves because once you hands start to sweat they'll never get warm again. I suggest a second pair.

You won't have to worry about picking up brass at Athol.

...and remember;
The yellow brick road to liberty is paved with fired .22 casings.
 
I picked up a pair of "sport utility gloves" (I know pretty stupid name) at Ocean City Job lot in Marlboro tonight for 5 bucks.

They're pretty slim, fit well, and have good flexibility. I'm thinking that these are what I'll wear to Appleseed in Feb. My plan is to use these for the shooting and when listening to training and instruction to put my heavy mittens on. The gloves I got might even fit inside my mittens.
 
It's coming! Ordered a few upgrades to my cold weather gear today to get ready.

Obviously, you'll want to wear several layers of clothing (base thermal layer, 1-2 removable lining layers, outer waterproof layer), but I want to mention a few not-so-obvious points that will ruin your day if you don't follow them.

1) No cotton!!!! It gets and stays wet and cold, making sure you stay wet and cold. Wool/polypro/synthetics/goretex are the way to go including (especially) socks and shirt. Most of your heat escapes through your head, so bring a hat but make sure your ear protection is compatible with it, or get some plugs.

2) Hands are important. I suggest a mitten outside with a glove liner inside. You might want to cut a slit in the glove for your trigger finger, or cut several fingers off, or you might not, but you'll have all weekend to find out. I suggest several extra glove liners. Once one pair gets wet, or some snow gets inside your outer mittens, if you don't have a dry replacements things go downhill fast. I'd also suggest extra socks in case your boots/pants fail to keep the snow out.

3) We won't be using the concrete covered area to shoot from. We'll be out in front of it. Unless all of Al Gore's dreams come true, it will still be snow and you will be prone in it for most of the weekend. Bring a nice thick mat to separate yourself from it.

4) Wipe off all excess lube from you rifle. It changes properties in the cold and will gum up the works. Your rifle should be practically dry. Keep your barrel out of the snow. A blockage will ruin everybody's day. Once the rifles are out in the cold, they will be staying there even though we will be going inside periodically to discuss the material. Otherwise, we invite condensation and bad things follow.

If you're coming out in the mornings to start your car lately thinking "What the Heck was I thinking signing up to be out in this all weekend?" I'd be just as happy to have you on April 19th at Harvard as I would next week. Just do us the favor of telling us ahead of time that you'd like to switch cause that won't fly nearly as well on Saturday morning. [smile]
 
Crossposted from www.appleseedinfo.com: Cold Weather Checklist

From Fred:
This does not pretend to be a complete list, but should get you pointed in some good directions.

Let's cover yourself, and then your equipment:

Yourself

First rule: Bring MORE clothing than you'll think you need - no problem with having some extra in the car - and better to have it when you need it, than not have it. So, bring extra overcoat, sweaters, scarves, gloves, socks - along with those nice (when you need 'em) pocket and foot warmers - and use them aggressively (I have put them on top of my shoulders inside my coat, in my shoes, under my toes, and in my coat pockets or in my gloves to warm my hands). There's good cold weather stuff out there: the knit caps you can pull down to protect face and neck (the military style wool ones are really good!), the pull-over hood that can be used to protect face, or head and neck, or pulled down around the neck (sorry, don't know how to spell "tocque").

Plus the usuals: water, lip balm, and what else? I'd say extra thermoses - one with hot chocolate and another with hot coffee and a third with hot soup - again, bring more than you think you need.

Equipment: you want to keep your stuff soaked in cold and leave it cased to avoid condensation when taking it into a warm house, until it warms up.

I don't know much about scopes and cold weather. Who can tell us? Better to keep them cold? Better to keep them warm?

Certainly, I would keep ammo warm - in your pocket, or in an insulated container. It will work in really cold weather when cold-soaked, but again, I don't have a lot of experience with cold below 10 degrees - can someone chip in with their suggestions?

Bare skin on cold enough metal is always a no-no. There may be temps so low you will keep your trigger finger in your glove, and lose a bit of sensitivity...

Protect equipment from blowing snow, grit, etc by keeping it protected from the elements. Your range safety officers will let you cover and uncover your equipment when they need to check and clear it, then recover.

Ammo is prob already in waterproof containers - keep the lids closed - and gun cases sealed - don't leave 'em open to the weather.

If slushy conditions are expected - and even if not - a large or small broom to sweep snow off your mat would be nice - and a towel to give it a final drying wipedown periodically.

On the firing line, if it's cold enough, a sleeping bag to put under, and then pull over you, might be worth trying.

Ok, this gets things started.

When we get done, let's have a pretty decent list...

We don't need a bunch of cold Appleseeders out there this winter. We want warm, happy Appleseeders, ready to carry the ball further down the field.

From Nickle:
About extreme cold and equipment.

Scopes, once they're cold, keep them that way. They will either fog, or they won't. Once outside, if they don't fog, you're good for the day, as a rule.

Lubrication. The word here is as little as possible. Thinest skim coat of lube possible is good. Even dry is said to be not all that bad, for the most part.

Coffee. Bad Ju-ju. Hot Chocolate and Hot Soup. Coffee and Tea are diuretics, and will cause you to have to "go" all the time, which makes you feel cold.

From Bedford:
Here is what I do. It may not work the best for everyone, but works for me. An important thing to remember is not to pack so much clothing on that it impedes the circulation - good circulation keeps you warm!

I wear 1 pair of silk long underwear (top and bottom), then 1 layer of thin wool long underwear. If it is really cold (below 0) I will put on thick sweat pants and a thick sweatshirt over this.

I use a swiss army overcoat and snowpants. These are windproof and as long as I stay reasonably active nothing else is needed on my body.

For my feet I use a pair of silk socks under a pair of medium wool socks inside my sorel boots.

For my hands I like to use a 2 layer system: fitted neoprene gloves inside heavy snowmobile mittens. I put the mittens on whenever I don't need my fingers free. I shoot with the left mitten on.

For my head I have a hat that has a brim like a ball cap. It also has a face mask and covers the ears and neck. I need the kind that has an open mouth and nose or my glasses fog. Make sure you can get at your ears to put plugs in without taking off your hat.

Any exposed skin (eyes, nose, mouth) I coat with a layer of Mary Kay night cream. This is the best I have found at preventing frost bite.

Most ear plugs get very hard in the cold - they hurt to get in. When I am shooting by myself (as is usually the case!) I just leave them in until I am done shooting. If I need to take them out to hear range commands I only take one out and tuck it along my neck so it stays warm.

For my rifles I don't do anything different in winter. I use the red grease from Fleet farm and it doesn't seem to freeze up. On my ARs I use regular motor oil. The most common equipment problem I have had is snow getting in the rear sight.

Scopes will stay clear if you leave them in the cold. Once cold, they will fog if you bring them inside. The same goes for your rifle. Beads of water will form quickly on your rifle. If you don't get it warm and dry before you go back out it could freeze up. Also, you can wipe the water off, but until the rifle warms up, more water will form on it. Therefore, I leave my rifle outside until I am done. During deer season, I leave it out all week long. The same goes for ammo. Ammo works fine in the cold. However, if you bring it back inside cold it will sweat. If you bring it back out before it dries, you could have problems. If I was doing a 2 day winter Appleseed I would leave my rifle and ammo in the jeep overnight and not clean the rifle until I got home.

I don't use a mat in the winter because they slide around too much. I do use a jump case to set my rifle and other equipment on.

From JoeZ:
Shooting in the cold (10 degrees or less) requires only small adaptations to your normal routine. Bedford pretty well nailed it but let me interject some thoughts here.

Breakfast and snack with meats of high fat content. Sausages of any type work best. This will warm you for hours.

Keep clothes loose, especially in the boots.

Wear silks, wools, or wool/poly blends against your skin, no other material, not even that cotton T shirt. At 0 or less add a layer.

A wind proof outer layer is a must. An extra layer in your pack is highly advised. Shooting 5 shots and walking back and forth 25m in 18" of snow every 5 minutes is alot warmer than laying prone doing ball and dummy for 45 minutes.

Two layers for the hands is a must. Base should be waterproof or wool(works wet) and outer should be mittens.

Wear a face mask and use the cream,if your properly turkey-necked, AR charging handles make funny looking frost bite shapes on your nose.

Wear a turtle neck or scarf to tuck your earplugs in.

I've used air tool oil(corrosion and water resistant) and MilComm(MC2500 oil, TW25B grease both good to -70 f ) both in my AR 10 with success. Here I must disagree with most and say put lots of lube on your AR. If you think you've lubed it enough, put some more on. I'm in Wisconsin though so dust is almost never an issue. Grease the locking lugs, the cam,trigger, and between the carrrier rear and the buffer. Oil the four sliding surfaces on the carrier and be sure the gas rings are dry. With this regimen I've shot AQT's to 14 below zero with the rifle and ammo left outside overnight.

Most importantly, try shooting cold before the actual AS date. You may find and fix a problem that would otherwise ruin a whole weekend.
 
Weatherman is calling for 45 degree and sunny weather this weekend. Normally I'd say that is great, but there is going to be some serious melting going on. Hope everyone's shooting mat is waterproof. Either that or bring two!!! Not to mention the mud.

This is going to be awesome!!!! [smile]
 
Weather.com says 35 on Sat and 45 on Sunday.

Bring your waterproof booties, kiddies. And your sunglasses, because I'm betting that there's going to be some serious glare off of the ice & snow.
 
Weather.com says 35 on Sat and 45 on Sunday.

Bring your waterproof booties, kiddies. And your sunglasses, because I'm betting that there's going to be some serious glare off of the ice & snow.

WBZ just said that the weather pattern has change and it will be 45 degrees on Saturday. Woohooo!!! Definitely plan on bringing wrap around sun glasses. Good call. Will have to rethink about my outer wear decision. Going to be to warm for that I was going to wear.
 
Didn't think I'd have to pack sunscreen... I didn't want single digits, but was looking forward to some cooler temps.
 
I'm bumbed.... I went out today just to make sure all was working well with my LTR. I had everything dialed in with the ammo I am going to use for this weekend. Then I noticed my front sight (Tech Sights) is up high. So high it's not locking into the pin. I screw it down until it locks in. I take another 5 shots and I am 1.5" high.

It's too late to order a extended front sight post, so I had to put some glass on it.[sad] I wanted to run this weekend with open sights. But nothing is keeping me away from this weekend, so, my LTR is going to be scoped. Gives me an 'excuse' to sign up for another Appleseed when the extended front post arrives [smile]
 
I'll be digging out the gates, setting up the target stands and marking the firing line & equipment lane tomorrow.

Oh yeah, as well as bringing in the burn barrel, firewood, dining table, re-arrainging the clubhouse into a chow hall, and what ever else I need to do so this goes off smoothly.

Oh, one more thing; On Saturday & Sunday morning, please leave your rifles in your vehicles until after the safety briefing.
 
OK... so now that it's not going to be cold, do we still want to keep the rifles unlubed?

Also, what time can we show up? I'd like to get there early so I can sight it in and work out any problems that I just KNOW are going to pop up.
 
Back
Top Bottom