ATF Proposed Rule Change for Frames and Receivers

[teamRR]

Great, but that's not what they wrote. So when they kick in Joe Sixpack's door, put 25 rounds in his Shih Tzu, and drag him off to jail, he'll have to _hope_ his lawyer can convince a judge the ATF did not mean what it wrote.

All this relates back to what is a gun, what requires serial numbers and a bgc. I think the test will be - if a jig exists, it's a serialized FFL item. But we are going to know very well in a few months.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

See my post #192 it has a pic from the ATF that indicates that they are the holes for the selector, the trigger pin and the hammer pin and you have to have a completely solid fire control cavity.

I'm sure the judge--who likely abhors the fact the unwashed can possess firearms at all--will understand that.

Where is the solid fire control cavity in this?

 

[teamRR]

you know, or possessing an eagle's feather. same same


I'm just going to link this here...
Amazon product ASIN 1594035229View: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229


@Dench knows where this is going, but lets remember that there are countless "felonies" that no one would ever think of as such.

I don't think many disagree on the bullshit felonies concept. It is just that.

 

[Dench]

you know, or possessing an eagle's feather. same same


I'm just going to link this here...
Amazon product ASIN 1594035229View: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229


@Dench knows where this is going, but lets remember that there are countless "felonies" that no one would ever think of as such.

If my memory serves me trading bull cum can be a felony. And I unironically believe there's plenty of people on NES who are fine with it

 

[HARRYM]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

How many times has our Government bastardized the word "INFRINGED"

 

[cathouse01]

I'm sure the judge--who likely abhors the fact the unwashed can possess firearms at all--will understand that.

Where is the solid fire control cavity in this?

Example 5— Not a receiver: A flat blank of an AK variant receiver without laser cuts or indexing that is not sold, distributed, or possessed with instructions, jigs, templates, equipment, or tools is not a receiver, as a person cannot readily fold the flat to provide housing or a structure for the primary component designed to block or seal the breech prior to initiation of the firing sequence.

So since that’s already bent, it will be considered a receiver.

 

[rcwhat]

Example 5— Not a receiver: A flat blank of an AK variant receiver without laser cuts or indexing that is not sold, distributed, or possessed with instructions, jigs, templates, equipment, or tools is not a receiver, as a person cannot readily fold the flat to provide housing or a structure for the primary component designed to block or seal the breech prior to initiation of the firing sequence.

Except that reliever is well past the flat stage

 

[Dench]

Example 5— Not a receiver: A flat blank of an AK variant receiver without laser cuts or indexing that is not sold, distributed, or possessed with instructions, jigs, templates, equipment, or tools is not a receiver, as a person cannot readily fold the flat to provide housing or a structure for the primary component designed to block or seal the breech prior to initiation of the firing sequence.

So since that’s already bent, it will be considered a receiver.

So if I bend a shovel twice its a firearm?

 

[drgrant]

My answer is, I don't know.

I could see some bank robber potentially not being all that dangerous, they might be doing something wreckless but do so because they anticipate clean submission and haven't an ounce of violent tendency. But the concept of letting someone like that go back to gun ownership after conviction? At least for a long while. I don't know - they abused the hell out of that right for sure.

Lol so you're one of those people?

Gun conrol FIP etc is a huge failure. Petting it helps noone, and just enables antis by supporting the "gunz r specshul and extra dangerous!!!!" Narrative that isn't even ideologicallly consistent. The actual bad guys are going to get guns legal or not. By the FIP logic, if it was actually taken to ots obvious limit,
felons shouldn't be driving cars, boats or other motorized transportation, cant possess or touch knives or anything else that's commonly used as a weapon. Oh and if the guy is big cut his hands off he could choke someone!!!!!

FIP/prohibited persons is f***ing garbage legal construct. If they are a real community danger, they should be incarcerated. (Or deported with threat of a 10yr felony on illegal reentry). Someone came up with that FIP/PP shit in the 60s so that antis could jerk off over it every time some asahole news reporter said the words "illegal gun". All it does is demonize firearms and make retarded people think they need extra attention and regulation; when in reality its bad conduct that needs "regulation".

 

[G4Y4HK]

Those don't look like gun kits to me.

 

[Mesatchornug]

So if I bend a shovel twice its a firearm?

If mere mortals like you or I do it, it's fine. Just don't let @Boris near that MFer or you're going directly to a PMITA penitentiary

 

[cathouse01]

Except that reliever is well past the flat stage

Added a comment to clarify.

 

[teamRR]

Lol so you're one of those people?

Gun conrol FIP etc is a huge failure. Petting it helps noone, and just enables antis by supporting the "gunz r specshul and extra dangerous!!!!" Narrative that isn't even ideologicallly consistent. The actual bad guys are going to get guns legal or not. By the FIP logic, if it was actually taken to ots obvious limit,
felons shouldn't be driving cars, boats or other motorized transportation, cant possess or touch knives or anything else that's commonly used as a weapon. Oh and if the guy is big cut his hands off he could choke someone!!!!!

FIP/prohibited persons is f***ing garbage legal construct. If they are a real community danger, they should be incarcerated. (Or deported with threat of a 10yr felony on illegal reentry). Someone came up with that FIP/PP shit in the 60s so that antis could jerk off over it every time some asahole news reporter said the words "illegal gun". All it does is demonize firearms and make retarded people think they need extra attention and regulation; when in reality its bad conduct that needs "regulation".

I guess I don't see the option of life encarceration for non murder type crimes, and also have known folks that just don't make me comfortable owning a gun (impulsive, violent).

 

[Mesatchornug]

I guess I don't see the option of life encarceration for non murder type crimes, and also have known folks that just don't make me comfortable owning a gun (impulsive, violent).

Life is dangerous and sometimes that's scary. If the man is free, let him be free.

 

[drgrant]

I guess I don't see the option of life encarceration for non murder type crimes, and also have known folks that just don't make me comfortable owning a gun (impulsive, violent).

But shitty PP/FIP law doesn’t physically stop them from possessing a gun and only serves to f*** someone up the ass in a variety of inane circumstances that are often non criminal. FIP has sent people back to jail for the “sins” like what would otherwise be lawfully protecting from a home invasion using a firearm. And that’s just the captain obvious problem, there are metric tons more.

 

[Dench]

I guess I don't see the option of life encarceration for non murder type crimes, and also have known folks that just don't make me comfortable owning a gun (impulsive, violent).

Youre feeding the antis wet dreams.

 

[Tartakovsky]

I guess I don't see the option of life encarceration for non murder type crimes, and also have known folks that just don't make me comfortable owning a gun (impulsive, violent).

1. Grow a pair.
2. What part of “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed” don’t you understand?

 

[teamRR]

Youre feeding the antis wet dreams.

I kinda don't care who's dreams I'm feeding, but the sort of guy who almost chokes his wife to death because he is angry/butt-hurt and is convicted of that, I'm alright with that person not legally owning a gun for life. For a number of those types, who absolutely can be dangerous minus the gun, it does stop them from keeping one around. And I do think it's safer that way.

 

[Tallahassee]

Going to need to finish my first drink before I chime in on this.

 

[teamRR]

1. Grow a pair.
2. What part of “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed” don’t you understand?

I've got a pair and it's easy to say that until you run across a certain type. Those folks who revolving door in/out of prison for their whole life, their constitutional rights are naturally revoked as part of the deal - and although I definitely think the concept of what constitutes a "felony" has been taken waaaay too far, there are lots of career criminals out there doing bad shit who are not always carrying guns because it is a liability. If tomorrow we said, everyone can own a gun regardless of what convictions they had - I do not believe it would be a 0 sum game.

 

[AHM]

There is no end to "felonies" that are 100% retarded and trivial crimes.

You really think a whole lot of retarded and trivial criminals
are caught packing heat after their conviction for Felony Unmowed Lawn?


The convicts who deserve 30 year sentences
but get kicked loose after 5-10 years through no good works of their own
may be lifetime FPPs but if caught with guns are seldom prosecuted.

Maybe instead they should get the option of parole after 5-10 years,
conditioned on 20-25 years of no-gun probation? That way it's a lot easier
to lock them back up if they get caught - a probationary hearing rather than a Federal case.

 

[AHM]

you know, or possessing an eagle's feather. same same

The Founding Fathers lived in an era where
this kind of stuff was finally getting a bad rep:

Crime and punishment in Georgian Britain

No one obsessed over the infringement of a convict's RKBA
if there was nothing left besides Alpo chunks
after sentence was carried out.

 

[Mesatchornug]

The Founding Fathers lived in an era where
this kind of stuff was finally getting a bad rep:

Crime and punishment in Georgian Britain

No one obsessed over the infringement of a convict's RKBA
if there was nothing left besides Alpo chunks
after sentence was carried out.

Which is why they ensured we had certain protections...

 

[MGnoob]

After rereading some of this nonsense. Specific tools or a drilling fixture makes me laugh. We’ll all just freestyle it with a Dremel tool.. A lot of this shit is just to make your homemade gun look decent. Who cares how a gun looks….

These are just dumb laws for the sake of having dumb laws so they can make more dumb things illegal…

You can breaking in any house and steal a firearm I don’t see how it really matters if you make it yourself or somebody else is black marketing Manufacturing a bunch of garbage…

I can guarantee it’s not gonna make a difference in “gun violence” I’m so tired of the ploy of the government not to let us citizens have a gun under the guise of keeping us safe…

 

[KBCraig]

Which clearly is NOT what we currently refer to as an 80% frame or 80% lower.

It's also clearly NOT what a P-80 BBS kit is.

 

[cathouse01]

It's also clearly NOT what a P-80 BBS kit is.

You're right, a “Buy-Build-Shoot” kit is not really a ”pre-manufactured, dissembled, complete firearms (a firearm in a box)”. They think they can get away with saying that by using the weaselly qualifier “essentially”. But even the BBS kits are not complete firearms, you need to do some work on them to “complete” them.

 

[teamRR]

"Ghost Gun" (a brand)

"Buy Build Shoot Kit" (one brands product that could almost be trademarked)

Both used incorrectly as buzz words like "Assault Rifle", "High Capacity Magazine", "Gun Show Loophole"

The dumb public thinks they are well defined terms that really mean something and its what the government says, government actors love to throw them around (my favorite lately "Weapon of Mass Destruction" ). We know.

 

[KBCraig]

This guy sums it up perfectly.

This guy is legal counsel to the Firearms Policy Coalition, so yes: he knows his stuff.

 

[cathouse01]

"Ghost Gun" (a brand)

"Buy Build Shoot Kit" (one brands product that could almost be trademarked)

Both used incorrectly as buzz words like "Assault Rifle", "High Capacity Magazine", "Gun Show Loophole"

The dumb public thinks they are well defined terms that really mean something and its what the government says, government actors love to throw them around (my favorite lately "Weapon of Mass Destruction" ). We know.

Plus the use of “Ghost Gun” to conflate Privately Made Firearms that do not need a serial number with commercial firearms (manufactured after 1968) that have had their (required) serial number obliterated. They are even including pre Gun Control Act of 1968 firearms that don’t have a serial number (cause it wasn’t required) as “Ghost Guns”. Anything to inflate their numbers.

 

[KBCraig]

I can’t bear the thought of going back into that 364 page shit show, but in my initial read, there’s a specific exemption to allow work on a PMF by a licensee WITHOUT having to serialize if IFF it’s going back to the person who brought it in for work. I think it said “single day” which, I guess means it doesn’t have to go in/out of the BB?

Unless something has changed recently, that's already the standard for gunsmiths. Overnight? BB. Same day? No BB.