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ATF Proposed Rule Change for Frames and Receivers
- Thread starter rep308
- Start date
groundscrapers
NES Member
If I had the money I would just grab the ghost gunner cnc and let the thing knock em out for me. But yes typically any mil spec lower will fit in a jig destined for a mil spec setup.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
Of course, the GG uses different jigs for forged and billet lowers. Though someone is now making a new, universal set up from aluminum.
Lowbird
NES Member
This should clear some things up.
See the second slide.
View: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ch3KLr3pDIU/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
See the second slide.
View: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ch3KLr3pDIU/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
groundscrapers
NES Member
actually the 1911 tools were pretty slick
I was talking the Glocks versus ARs - with a little patience, a screw gun, and a few files, maybe a little sandpaper, someone can pretty much make a Glock factory quality frame out of the kits. An AR version just isn't so, not that it can't be done well - even after perfect machining that's much more difficult, you still have bare metal surfaces to deal with if you want that factory finished kinda product.
I have an ar15 jig made by Tactical Machining and it has worked on several different brands of lowers. I can't say if it will work for every kind.
FYI, Tactical Machining and Thunder Tactical have both stopped selling jigs. They only sell parts as of 8/24. Find yourself a jig sooner than later.
Without comment. Starting....now.
markforged.com
Markforged Metal 3D Printer: The Metal X 3D Printing System
The Metal X metal 3D printer is a manufacturing solution that cost effectively prints parts using tool and stainless steel, inconel, titanium and other alloys.
markforged.com
Nice way to spend $100k...Without comment. Starting....now.
Markforged Metal 3D Printer: The Metal X 3D Printing System
The Metal X metal 3D printer is a manufacturing solution that cost effectively prints parts using tool and stainless steel, inconel, titanium and other alloys.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
I'm going to go on a limb and guess they require you to use their online slicer, like they do for the filament printer. Eiger is known to prevent printing of parts Markforged considers inappropriate.Without comment. Starting....now.
Markforged Metal 3D Printer: The Metal X 3D Printing System
The Metal X metal 3D printer is a manufacturing solution that cost effectively prints parts using tool and stainless steel, inconel, titanium and other alloys.
KBCraig
NES Member
I'm not sure what the "second slide" is on IG, but here's the link they suggest.
The advert said affordable and didn't list a price. I didn't know it was a group buy type of thing.
I have little knowlege on the subject, i had to look that up. I hope there will be options in the future if it's the case.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
Technology marches forever onward. Markforged, as a company, is not likely to change their policy here. Eventually someone (Prusa? Creality?) will make a prosumer model, or maybe even a FOSS one. Until then, metal printers will remain expensive and tightly controlled by their manufacturers.
For reference, here's one of the first hits for "Metal X pricing"
Markforged Metal X price, technology and 3D printing materials - EngineeringClicks
Metal 3D printers have been around for over a decade but have been out of reach for most. With the introduction of the Markforged Metal X, this has begun
www.engineeringclicks.com
$120K for the system. $130 to $330 per spool of material. For comparison, you can have a brand new, assembled Prusa drop-shipped to your door for a bit over $1K, and each spool of material is ~$20-$30.
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
Not "mated with" the blank but rather "possessed with" it.
Lowbird
NES Member
APFSDS
NES Member
Without comment. Starting....now.
Markforged Metal 3D Printer: The Metal X 3D Printing System
The Metal X metal 3D printer is a manufacturing solution that cost effectively prints parts using tool and stainless steel, inconel, titanium and other alloys.
We went to the Markforged distributor in Charlotte and had a demo of one of these exact printers at my last job. We were thinking of getting it in addition to our two excellent markforged Nylon/Carbon fiber printers, but it was too expensive and too involved a process for the small pieces of tooling we would be making (custom mill vise jaws and valve testing adapter). In addition to the machine you also need to wash out the binder and sinter the part in a furnace with a special atmosphere. The threads for the buffer tube are coarse enough that this might work, but it would probably be cheaper to get regular machine tools and just machine the lower from a raw forging yourself, OR use one of the modified lowers people have developed that will work with normal plastic FDM 3D printing. It is possible to machine an AR lower from a forging on a bridgeport. It's involved and requires some tooling and special setup but it can be done, see: Machining an AR-15 Lower
allen-1
NES Member
Asaltweapon
NES Member
allen-1
NES Member
"Find yourself a jig sooner than later."
This exactly.
If you have any interest in finishing an 80% lower, or think that you may have in the future - get a jig - or make sure that one of your trusted circle has one. Then go buy a couple of 80% lowers. Preferably at a gunshow for cash.
Your most likely correct, I assumed we were talking AR lowers. I don't have any experience with the pistol builds.
Lowbird
NES Member
I'm just going to leave this here.
Yes, that is what it looks like. You truly can't stop the signal.
View: https://twitter.com/mrsnow_makes/status/1564615620250984457?t=NHZnNsAvg5S2TSVMSw4azg&s=19
Yes, that is what it looks like. You truly can't stop the signal.
View: https://twitter.com/mrsnow_makes/status/1564615620250984457?t=NHZnNsAvg5S2TSVMSw4azg&s=19
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
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Link...for research purposesTechnology marches forever onward. Markforged, as a company, is not likely to change their policy here. Eventually someone (Prusa? Creality?) will make a prosumer model, or maybe even a FOSS one. Until then, metal printers will remain expensive and tightly controlled by their manufacturers.
For reference, here's one of the first hits for "Metal X pricing"
Markforged Metal X price, technology and 3D printing materials - EngineeringClicks
Metal 3D printers have been around for over a decade but have been out of reach for most. With the introduction of the Markforged Metal X, this has begunwww.engineeringclicks.com
$120K for the system. $130 to $330 per spool of material. For comparison, you can have a brand new, assembled Prusa drop-shipped to your door for a bit over $1K, and each spool of material is ~$20-$30.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
Your comment reminds me, I could have been clearer. The Prusa example is one of the more popular filament (extruded plastic) printers. Plastic printers are good for what they're good for, but they're limited.
This use of metal is still young, and the material is inherently harder to process. It shouldn't surprise us that this is significantly more expensive to work with. When they say "affordable" in this context, they're talking to companies that are spedning lots of money on prototyping. This is being sold to someone who's considering another HAAS, not a home hobbyist. Someday, we may see that, but I kind of doubt it.
To fill out the plastic printer part of the conversation, here's the Prusa:
Original Prusa i3 MK3S+ 3D printer | Original Prusa 3D printers directly from Josef Prusa
BACK TO SCHOOL BUNDLE: 4 Prusament spools to every Original Prusa i3 MK3S+ completely for free: PLA Prusa Galaxy Black, PLA Galaxy Purple, PETG Jet Black, and PETG Prusa Orange. When counting the bundled silver PLA filament, you’ll get 5 kg of filament with every new printer! Offer ends on...
Ender-3 V2 Neo 3D Printer
Ender-3V2 Neo 3D Printer :Revival of Easy and Accurate Printing, Just Get Easier,Accessible printer for everybody, everyday.
www.creality.com
and some reliable, affordable material:
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
I got a chuckle out of some of the “informed” proclamations here about absolutely having to serialize your left nut or some such to get 80% lowers.
Joe Bob has new P80s in stock with rails, pins, no jig but a helpful recommendation about a separate vendor for jigs. (For those that don’t have 2 or 3 laying around
)
Joe Bob has new P80s in stock with rails, pins, no jig but a helpful recommendation about a separate vendor for jigs. (For those that don’t have 2 or 3 laying around
)
Polymer 80 9MM / .40 Full Size 80% Pistol Frame w/ Rails and Pins
Polymer 80 9MM / .40 Full Size 80% Pistol Frame w/ Rails and Pins
www.joeboboutfitters.com
Wow!I got a chuckle out of some of the “informed” proclamations here about absolutely having to serialize your left nut or some such to get 80% lowers.
Joe Bob has new P80s in stock with rails, pins, no jig but a helpful recommendation about a separate vendor for jigs. (For those that don’t have 2 or 3 laying around
Polymer 80 9MM / .40 Full Size 80% Pistol Frame w/ Rails and Pins
Polymer 80 9MM / .40 Full Size 80% Pistol Frame w/ Rails and Pinswww.joeboboutfitters.com
So, you can still get a P80 without a serial number???
I thought the whole point of the new ATF rule was to prevent this?
pastera
NES Member
They wanted to but could only twist the wording to consider the 80% a firearm is if it is readily modified.
Without the jig the average person of nominal intelligence and ability would not be able to readily modify the 80% to make it able to fire.
So it is the constructive possession of both the 80% and the jig that creates a readily converted device.
allen-1
NES Member
Lots of articles out there, and I've been reading them. It appears to still be legal at the federal level to finish an 80%, it's a "PMF", privately manufactured firearm. I think that serializing only becomes necessary if the firearm goes into an FFL's inventory. Which could happen if you were having it ceracoated for example. Because the process requires the FFL to have posession of the firearm for more than a day, and thus it has to go into his bound book.
Companies such as P80 have been forced to separate the bundling of 80% frames and the jigs to complete them - as the ATF has managed to declare that a "firearm". <spit>
But I don't think the same applies to my garage. I think I can have 80% frames and jigs in the same location without constructive posession applying.
If anyone's got links to articles stating otherwise - I'd like to see them please.
They are hanging their hat on "readily", is it readily made into a functional firearm. selling the jig with the 80%, to them, meets that readily.
But the law says you can build your own firearm and you are not required to put a serial on it. So if you get an 80% and have a jig, sure they can call it constructive possession, but that didn't happen until you got them and the law is clear you can do this (but not a manufacturer). So it's legal for you.
It's speculation, but a dealer, LGS, who has both 80% and jigs in stock might want to be careful because I can see the ATF calling them a manufacturer. They would need to keep those two businesses separate to be safe.
