ATF Proposed Rule Change for Frames and Receivers

[Dennis in MA]

Changed rule at the last minute. . . without a public comment period or anything. That'll hold up in court. LOL

One has to wonder what sort of chaos is going on to have them not just pull this and restart it from scratch. It's not like it's THEIR money that was wasted. Pull it, delay, see what you can get away with and move on. B/c a Bruen and/or EPA challenge is going to shitcan any rule they decide to implement anyhow.

 

[Golddiggie]

Changed rule at the last minute. . . without a public comment period or anything. That'll hold up in court. LOL

One has to wonder what sort of chaos is going on to have them not just pull this and restart it from scratch. It's not like it's THEIR money that was wasted. Pull it, delay, see what you can get away with and move on. B/c a Bruen and/or EPA challenge is going to shitcan any rule they decide to implement anyhow.

We can only HOPE that this gets tossed out.
It would also be nice if the time line to get it tossed isn't extended. ATF needs to get disbanded completely. Revoke the NFA as well.

 

[MFSP101]

Apparently it did hold up in court yesterday.
So is this like the bump stock ban? Any one one who has these are now felons?

 

[amm5061]

So what was the change? I'm still unclear on that.

 

[MFSP101]

So what was the change? I'm still unclear on that.

Don’t know either. They called them corrections to avoid confusion.

 

[Golddiggie]

Don’t know either. They called them corrections to avoid confusion.

Since this is the .gov, the inverse will [always] be true.

 

[cathouse01]

So what was the change? I'm still unclear on that.

Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms; Corrections

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Last-minute correction and updates on the ATF frames and receiver rules by the ATF:

View: https://youtu.be/ELipIdZcsWE

Updates on the three cases:
View: https://youtu.be/NDc1AzATXc8

 

[Dennis in MA]

We can only HOPE that this gets tossed out.
It would also be nice if the time line to get it tossed isn't extended. ATF needs to get disbanded completely. Revoke the NFA as well.

Oh this is going to end epically bad for them. Too many cases AGAINST government in this last session. It's inevitable.

Apparently it did hold up in court yesterday.
So is this like the bump stock ban? Any one one who has these are now felons?

One court one time. You know if we won they'd appeal and vice versa. It's gotta go up a chain until someone says, "Did you to read Bruen and EPA last session?? You can't do that!"

Time. Time is on our side. The ATF won't DARE prosecute under this because it would fall apart in criminal court faster than they could backpedal. Think of it like Maura's ASS weapon ban.

 

[42!]

I'll admit I just scanned the changes, and given the way some youtubers reacted, and some here, you'd think they were trying to push big additions. But it really did look like just minor corrections with no meaningful changes. I know many like to fight and scream over everything, but this is looking more like crying wolf and will likely have the same affect. If you want to be taken seriously, don't scream flood when someone drops a glass of water. Time and money is better spent on real issues.

 

[Glocklike tendencies]

I'll admit I just scanned the changes, and given the way some youtubers reacted, and some here, you'd think they were trying to push big additions. But it really did look like just minor corrections with no meaningful changes. I know many like to fight and scream over everything, but this is looking more like crying wolf and will likely have the same affect. If you want to be taken seriously, don't scream flood when someone drops a glass of water. Time and money is better spent on real issues.

I kind of thought the same thing……but the term “ sear or any equivalent component” equivalent component can be construed as anything they feel, whenever they feel. ?? Before it was “energized component”
maybe i am reaching.?

 

[SpaceCritter]

I kind of thought the same thing……but the term “ sear or any equivalent component” equivalent component can be construed as anything they feel, whenever they feel. ?? Before it was “energized component”
maybe i am reaching.?

At this point, the Donks are doing anything they want, cuz who is going to stop them? They know they have the cheaty-machine installed to obviate future elections, a goodly percentage of obedient judges, and a lapdog media (cuz they all work for the same people).

 

[Spicolii]

I kind of thought the same thing……but the term “ sear or any equivalent component” equivalent component can be construed as anything they feel, whenever they feel. ?? Before it was “energized component”
maybe i am reaching.?

Maybe on face value but given this agencies track record you can bet your bottom dollar it wasn't to help us

 

[safetyfirst2125]

the term “ sear or any equivalent component” equivalent component can be construed as anything they feel, whenever they feel

If the ATF calls this a sear or machine gun, then that’s what it is.

 

[240Geezer]

ATF will plow forward on this until they get royally slapped down by either the Supreme Court or a more gun friendly Administration/ Congress.
(Should one of the latter ever occur again)
ATF, like most alphabets don't give a rats ass about wins and losses. It's about causing chaos and uncertainty in their respective domains. That's how the budgets get increased every year.

 

[Dench]

ATF will plow forward on this until they get royally slapped down by either the Supreme Court or a more gun friendly Administration/ Congress.
(Should one of the latter ever occur again)
ATF, like most alphabets don't give a rats ass about wins and losses. It's about causing chaos and uncertainty in their respective domains. That's how the budgets get increased every year.

Looking busy is certainly a thing, unfortunately.

 

[additionalmc]

after skimming through the ATF page, it seems that a simple thing like a Kel-Tec P32, P3AT or Ruger LCP plastic grip module will fall under these rules, since the "sear" is held by a pin in the plastic grip part itself, not in the actual machined receiver.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

 

[Reptile]

What is the process to legally obtain an 80% lower now?

Are they all serialized from your FFL now?

 

[safetyfirst2125]

What is the process to legally obtain an 80% lower now?

Are they all serialized from your FFL now?

Yes I think that’s the hew requirement now: lowers treated like a firearm, FFL needs to run background check and add serial number if not on it already.

That’s my understanding anyway.

 

[Reptile]

Yes I think that’s the hew requirement now: lowers treated like a firearm, FFL needs to run background check and add serial number if not on it already.

That’s my understanding anyway.

Are they all send to FFL's with serial numbers?
Can FFL's buy them without serial numbers?
If so, how to they enter into their bound book if there is no serial number?

This may be the new law but there seems to be loop holes.

 

[Lowbird]

Didn't P80 just create new SKUs for frames only to deal with this? Kinda like what 80% arms had been doing.
Now that's out the window, if I'm understanding it. It's late, I'm burnt. And I'm still seeing AFT kits on a certain website. Had seen frames up too. Now marked oos, or just gone.

 

[wcorey]

What is the process to legally obtain an 80% lower now?

Are they all serialized from your FFL now?

I was under the impression that the only change for a purchase of unfinished/unserialized frames/receivers was the package can't include the jig and possibly other completion parts.
It's when the completed or partially completed frame goes to an ffl for more than some specified short period of time that then the ffl is obligated to serialize it.
So it would seem that you can't do an interstate sale of a finished or partially finished frame without serializing it...

 

[teamRR]

I was under the impression that the only change for a purchase of unfinished/unserialized frames/receivers was the package can't include the jig and possibly other completion parts.
It's when the completed or partially completed frame goes to an ffl for more than some specified short period of time that then the ffl is obligated to serialize it.
So it would seem that you can't do an interstate sale of a finished or partially finished frame without serializing it...

No. Watch a video or read up. That is an idea that keeps coming up, wishfull thinking.

The short of it is you cannot buy unserialized p80s anymore, anything remotely like a p80 anyway.

There may be or have been some verbiage in a prior version that said if a jig exists for it, then it requires the SN/background check. I faintly remember something like that. But that was a test - a way to say xyz hunk of material wasn't a firearm until a jig comes along.

And yes at one point they randomly tried to make the case that if you sell a p80+parts+jig it's a gun while the parts could ship separately - that was prior to the ATF making up new "laws". The new, now implemented, bullshit, makes all of that impertinent. Hence you won't find a p80 shipping to your door now.

Existing p80s that we citizens own in any capacity are ok, finished, not, whatever. But if they go through an FFL they get serialized. At least that's the federal deal. Probably you can't sell one across state lines legally either, finished or not.

 

[Boghog1]

so when do the 79% lowers start shipping?

 

[67ray]

so when do the 79% lowers stat shipping?

Their rulemaking isn't predicated on a percentage completion. You should read it.

 

[Knob Creek]

New Receiver awaiting Serialization:

 

[Caveman]

Does this mean that all Ruger MK series pistols at dealers have to get sent back to Ruger and can’t be sold? if I remember correctly those do not have serialized frames? and the Serial is on the barrel/action?

 

[MaverickNH]

Let’s watch crime drop off sharply now that ATF has implemented this new rule.

If making guns for criminals was less risky, some criminals made and sold guns. Now that it’s not less risky, criminals will go back to other illicit means of obtaining guns, including home & auto break-ins, armed robbery, etc.

It’s all about edging further down the slippery slope of gun control. The US is not a passivated society, like many European countries - we remain a violent lot and need guns for self-defense. We’ve seen what happens when tens of thousands of immigrants flock to European countries from very different cultures - their passivated societies are defenseless against violent crime.

 

[MAJoe]

Does this mean that all Ruger MK series pistols at dealers have to get sent back to Ruger and can’t be sold? if I remember correctly those do not have serialized frames? and the Serial is on the barrel/action?

Guns where the serialized portion of the receiver has already been decided are not being re-evaluated. This is why the whole “omg AR uppers are going to need SNs and 4473s” amounted to nothing and no change.