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Article: Toby Keith Was For Guns Before He Was Against Them
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Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
... do that brand new thing ...
BattleSnail
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hypocrite ... some lawyer probably said something to him about liability and he caved. Restaurant looks like Texas Roadhouse raped Smokey Bones and they birthed a totally unoriginal dump of a restaurant love child.
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I wonder if he even had a say in it (or knew of it for that matter).
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Probably has a new best friend named Scott Brown. He was for guns too, once. Maybe Toby is getting ready to run for office, 2014 is an election year, after all.
Is this really an issue? Toby Keith is pro gun, which I am as well, but guns and alcohol don't mix. From a business perspective it is a HUGE liability. If someone were to open fire at a bar and an inncoent bystander got killed it'd be devastating. So don't carry at that bar! Life goes on.
radioman
NES Member
So how many drinks does one have to have before loosing ones right to self defense?
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
An out yourself thread in every forum....
It should be up the the person carrying a weapon/drinking.....not the establishment.
It should be up the the person carrying a weapon/drinking.....not the establishment.
I'm so bloody sick of these "out yourself" comments. At the end of the day, we are all gun owners yet we attack anybody who goes against our particular interpretations and philosophy.
You had potentially a teachable moment here, but instead immediately went for the throat with the "out yourself crap". We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
mark056 is absolutely right. Sometimes, I(as well as all of us) will take the low road, for the lulz, and pass by an opportunity to help someone understand what our views are, and let them decide if they want to change or restate theirs. It wasn't long ago that I would have had the same view on the matter of guns in establishments that serve alcohol, and it was NES that opened my eyes the fact that it should be up the the individual, not the restaurant, state, or .gov whether we "might" be a danger if we have a beer while carrying.
As the the quoted post, why wouldn't it be a HUGE liability in a grocery store, sewing supply house, or sporting goods store? The fact of the matter is that a large majority of the people who would obtain a concealed carry license would not either "open fire", or get blind drunk while at such an establishment. The real liability lies in the disturbed soul who walks into the joint wanting to do someone or some people harm. If you think he's gonna obey the sign on the door, you've got another thing coming. If that event comes to pass while I'm inside, I want to have every chance possible to defend myself, and I will not patronize an establishment that is willing to take a good portion of that chance away. Now, if it's in a state in which signs don't have the force of law....Then concealed means concealed.
Serving people who drove to the bar is a huge liability too. Overserving a 6'4" 250lb MMA fighter could be a huge liability too. But, no signs. There isn't much, if any, data to support the argument that law abiding gun owners get drunk and shoot people for not reason in restaurants but for some reason we think the no guns sign makes sense. By this logic there should be a "no knives", "no guns", "no large strong people" sign on the door as well.
Its about personal responsibility which, I think, many people thought Toby Keith supported.
BattleSnail
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true...probably just whored out his name and never even stepped foot in one of these dumps.
TK is a money machine. He owns some of the restaurants and franchises others, including the one in VA. If he had been anti-gun he would have posted that sign in the sites he owns like in Oklahoma City or the original one in Las Vegas. He's owns a bunch of businesses and he's worth a half-billion:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackoma...h-cowboy-capitalist-countrys-500-million-man/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackoma...h-cowboy-capitalist-countrys-500-million-man/
BattleSnail
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yep, soulless POS who doesn't really believe in much of anything.
this is why I'm no longer posting... Everything online is taken out of context and then you get a bunch of people bashing you....
its just another cheesy bar in some other state that none of us are going to go to. So don't go into a Toby Keith bar if you don't like their rules.
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Anyone want to join the fundamentalist church of Latter Day Saints?!
Don't go running off. In your original post you seemed to indicate that it shouldn't be an issue that someone else tells me when I can and can't carry a firearm. The simple fact: It is an issue. I, and I alone, am responsible for me, just at you are responsible for you.
I'm gonna raise some hackles here and say that I don't run home and lock my ccw up if a situation arises in which I am gonna have a beer or two. I also stop at 2, just like when I'm riding or driving. If I'm gonna have more than that, then I do several things; get a DD, leave my firearm at home, and fraternize with several people I know, so as to have my back watched.
These decisions should be up to me, not some lawyer, restaurant owner, city council person, or attorney general.
If your position is that any of the above should be making that determination, then I implore you to think about it long and hard. Do you want them to make the decision of whether you can own a firearm at all? Let's face it, there are situations every day that could cause you to lose your self-control and just open fire into a crowd, and we can't have that.
On the other hand, if your position is that you shouldn't carry anytime you're gonna have a drink, then GREAT, that's your decision, and I will never begrudge you for that. Just don't tell me I have to abide by it.
Just trying to get the root of the matter here, as you've said we've taken things out of context and bashed you(which I'll admit, I did in my initial post, but my second was really trying to see where you stood). So tell us what the core issue is for you, and we can discuss it.
Cheers
dcmdon
NES Member
There is a big difference between personally not wanting firearms inside your business and believing that the Government should keep its hands off your guns.
I can see how the owner of a red necky type bar wouldn't want guns inside. Have any of you guys ever been down south, really south. I don't mean Florida. I don't even mean Austin.
I've drank with young, aggressive drunk and armed men. They might be nice as pie sober. But they were a nuisance at best when they drank. I drank with hunters at a duck camp in Mississippi on 3 trips over the course of 3 years and with oil field workers in ND. This was not polite society. Shoot, this wasn't even Bridgeport, CT. In the course of roughly a week trip on several occasions I saw several fist fights between drunks. Anything I could do to get the drunks to leave their guns in their trucks would be a good thing.
Guns and excessive booze don't mix. If you have a place where people drink to excess, its not a bad idea to post a sigh. If you as a patron don't like that, then don't go there.
But that doesn't mean that the owner is for governmental control of firearms.
I can see how the owner of a red necky type bar wouldn't want guns inside. Have any of you guys ever been down south, really south. I don't mean Florida. I don't even mean Austin.
I've drank with young, aggressive drunk and armed men. They might be nice as pie sober. But they were a nuisance at best when they drank. I drank with hunters at a duck camp in Mississippi on 3 trips over the course of 3 years and with oil field workers in ND. This was not polite society. Shoot, this wasn't even Bridgeport, CT. In the course of roughly a week trip on several occasions I saw several fist fights between drunks. Anything I could do to get the drunks to leave their guns in their trucks would be a good thing.
Guns and excessive booze don't mix. If you have a place where people drink to excess, its not a bad idea to post a sigh. If you as a patron don't like that, then don't go there.
But that doesn't mean that the owner is for governmental control of firearms.
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ChevyGuy91
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I have carried at the bar many times and no one got shot, because I am not an ******* who loses control of myself after a few beers.
Great point... But,
If a person is the type to drink to excess and brandish a firearm, do you think the sign would stop him?
In this case, the subject retrieved his firearm from his vehicle. His friends questioned his mental stability, and apparently was charged with a misdemeanor.
StevieP
NES Member
It's a franchise. Not HIS bar.
Lank
NES Member
In MA I suspect one sip of beer. I recall that MA simply states that firearms should not be handled when someone is under the influence of alcohol. Do they mean >0.8% You got me.
Seems like that's the likely issue. But, that's the trouble with making money by selling your name for what it represents. The guy who buys it can do crap you wouldn't while the public sees them as your actions. I'm curious to hear a statement from Keith himself but only mildly. It's not like the place was on my short list of dining options
BattleSnail
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Most businesses using franchise marketing have corporate policies that supersede what the franchise owner wants to do.
GJH86
NES Member
If you really need some blah wings and a tall boy of PBR for $4 then tuck roscoe under your shirt and go ahead, signage be damned. What's the worst that can happen? If you are not an asshat and flash the thing then you are all set. What they don't know can't hurt em.
True, but my understanding was that the flap up here is that his other restaurants do not carry the same signage which would lead me to believe that this is not a corporate decision.
