Appleseed-type Rifle Recommendation - Lefty

[dbhn]

I am hoping to attend a couple of the Appleseed clinics next year and want to work on getting an appropriate rifle over the winter months.

Main issue is that I shoot left handed and don't have to much in terms of long guns because of this. Coupled with the fact in MA I can only hunt with shotguns. But, I of course, have the bug and want to branch out.

So, one gun on my wish list has always been a 30-30 lever action. Cheap money, OK for deer within certain distances and good for left handed shooting. Also, I feel this type of gun is well suited (style-wise) to keep open sights on it all the time. Which I believe is how they teach at Appleseed.

Do these have enough accuracy for distances shot in Appleseed? Any other recommendations for me?


Keep in mind a couple of others on my list is an LH bolt action, an AR and a 10/22 but I don't feel I'd want to keep open sites on any of these. Plus, the AR may be a bit further down the road.

 

[Chris]

You can use any sight you want in an appleseed.

The .22 is a nice way to start, cheap to feed, and will allow you to focus on becoming a better shooter.

The nice thing about an appleseed is that ANY rifle is useful. The ultimate goal is for YOU to be able to hit a man sized target at about 400 yards. So the real target of the training is YOU.

That said, with a manual loader, I'd lean more to the bolt than the lever. Savage has some great bolt guns for short $$ if you really want a centerfire.

 

[Jose]

US Rifle, Caliber .30, M1.

 

[Nickle]

dbhn, go to an Appleseed first, use a borrowed rifle if you have to, then buy a piece of historu from CMP, the M1 Rifle.

If you are really serious about learning to shoot a rifle, then go buy a 10/22 Ruger NOW, and start tweaking it. You'll be able to do most of an Appleseed with it, and could borrow a full power rifle if need be, assuming the Appleseed you're at is going to do further than 100 yards. Yes, some Appleseeds only do 25 meters to 100 yards, some do further (up to 400 yards) and a very few (only one so far was Jericho, VT) does out to 600 yards.

 

[dwarven1]

Listen to Nickle - he's the NE Regional Coordinator for the Appleseed project.

And he just gave you the advice that I was going to give you, basically. My only comment on the lever action is that you might have a hard time reloading quickly enough for some of the stages on the AQT.

That said, I want a lever action gun, too... it's on my list. I just won't be using it for BG's at 400 yards; that's for my M1.

 

[Jose]

I strongly disagree with the 10/22 as a trainer.

Get a BOLT ACTION 22. The majority of them do not need any tweaking to make right, unlike the 10/22. On top of that, a bolt action will teach you to make each shot count.

I have a CZ 452 that I paid $250 NIB and will run rings around most 10/22s that have had double that sunk into them in mods.

 

[Nickle]

I strongly disagree with the 10/22 as a trainer.

Get a BOLT ACTION 22. The majority of them do not need any tweaking to make right, unlike the 10/22. On top of that, a bolt action will teach you to make each shot count.

I have a CZ 452 that I paid $250 NIB and will run rings around most 10/22s that have had double that sunk into them in mods.

Well, we'll disagree on this.

Learning on a semi-auto makes sense, because you're focusing on marksmanship, not manipulating the action of the rifle.

Also, Appleseed does a fair amount of Rapid Fire shooting, and the norm is 50-60 seconds for 10 shots, including a mag change and getting into position. If you attend one in New York or New England, I can about guarantee you WILL be doing Rapid Fire exercises.

Jose, the bolt gun shooters don't have TIME to learn how to work the action fast and learn to shoot well. Not at an Appleseed for sure.

I've seen bolt gun shooters get results, and meet the standard, but I don't suggest a bolt gun for a novice doing this kind of shooting.

You don't need a target rifle for Appleseed. What you need is an easy to use rifle that shoots 4 MOA groups consistently, and has decent sights and a sling.

A 10/22 Carbine can be had from Wal-Mart for $182 and change, the parts to tart it up (less sights) can be had for about $55 or so (less spare mags), and the sights go for about $55-$60.

Just so everybody here knows, I am the Northeast Regional Coordinator for RWVA (my Asst is no less than the Dwarven1). I am also an RWVA Instructor and a member of RWVA Staff.

Not blowing my own horn here, just letting you know that I have a pretty good idea of what the Appleseed program is about, being one of the Appleseed Instructors and all.

 

[Jose]

Also, Appleseed does a fair amount of Rapid Fire shooting, and the norm is 50-60 seconds for 10 shots, including a mag change and getting into position. If you attend one in New York or New England, I can about guarantee you WILL be doing Rapid Fire exercises.

 

[Nickle]

Jose, I see you now understand why the 10/22 is recommended.

Just so everybody knows, his comments on using a bolt action .22 are essentially correct, for a slower paced course than Appleseed is.

We frequently do a Rapid Fire AQT, 40 rounds total, 10 rounds per position, 6 minutes. Most folks get it done in less than 5 minutes. 25 meter targets, distances below are simulated distances by target scaling. Targets are D targets

That's 10 rounds standing @ 100 yards (sim), 10 rounds sitting/kneeling @ 200 yards (sim), 10 rounds prone @ 300 yards (sim, and 10 rounds prone @ 400 yards (sim). The 400 yard portion gets the scores doubled, for a max score of 250. 210 gets you Rifleman, and a nice patch.

Ask crak and Dwarven1 about it.

 

[Jose]

Nickel, I still disagree with you. I can sit down, close the bolt of my Model 70, get five shots out, reload with a stripper clip, and get those out too in less than 60 seconds and clean the NRA 200 yard target.

It's not all that difficult if you train and practice a little each day, and perhaps guys like you should make some room in the schedule for some snapping in time.

 

[Nickle]

Well, Jose, have you been to an Appleseed yet?

I suggest you do sometime. I don't mean this in an insulting or condenscending manner, either.

If you do, you'll see how we do things, and how much the Instructors WILL get after you if you AREN'T dry firing during your preparation periods.

Snapping in? You'd better be. Or you WILL get reminded to.

And, I'm not saying it CAN'T be done with a bolt gun, because it wouldn't be true.

I've got one of my local Instructors that can get 10 well aimed shots off from a Ruger 77/22 (scoped) in just over 30 seconds. Ask Dwarven1 about him, or crak even. Ross saw that at Proctor.

All of that being said, a new shooter needs to learn marksmanship FIRST, bolt manipulation later. And, this particular question was raised for the specific events I'm talking about.

An Appleseed is a fast paced course that concentrates on teaching traditional methods of marksmanship, with an emphasis on the basics. It's modeled the old Army Marksmanhip program that existed prior to Trainfire systems and the M14. It goes all the way back to the 1903 Springfield. And, yes, bolt guns do get used, and effectively.