Anyone casting .223 for AR-15 ?

Mr. Gold

Mr. Gold

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Never done it, saw that Lee has molds for .223 and gas checks, bullets will need to pan lubed.

Asking around I got two different views:

1. Hell no, don't do it! you'll lead the barrel, the gas tube, you'll screw up the rifle.

2. Sure, why not ? Use gas checks, go lighter on the powder and you should be fine.

Your input is welcome,

Thank you.
 
i cast for the .223 back in the day but for a ruger no. 1 rifle, not an ar. wasn't a memorable experience, couldn't find a load that would work in that rifle so i stopped. your post is the first time i've ever heard someone mentioning a cast 223, ever. when i tell people i did it they wrinkle their brow at me. only thing that comes to mind was it wasn't worth my time. my mold dropped a flat point bullet, don't know how that style would feed in an ar semi auto. don't recall an issue with leading but i cast a hard bullet, went heavy on the linotype in the mix. and honestly, the only reason i even tried is because someone gave an old mold they had hanging around.
 
It will not end well. Even straight lino with gas check will plug the gas port. If you really want to roll your own, get into swaging .22 cases into .223 bullets.
 
Hog wash and nonsense......look around there are those out there successfully casting for AR.
Now with that fancy high tech coating leading might be a non issue?
I would imagine a proper fitting bullet would be key as in any cast bullet. Slug your bore.
I would want a cast bullet at least 224 or even 225" gas check it and see what happens.
Once I am finished working up a 8mm and 303 load M1 and AR are next....I already have a accurate load for my M1 just doesn't cycle well. I put 300rinds only a smidge of lead residue on the tip of piston.
I think most of the leading issues come from those shooting 22lr with conversations kits. The 22lr bullet is to small and there is little gas pressure to keep the tube clear....not sure but here is a start
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156326-AR-15-500-Round-Cast-Bullet-Test

Keep us,posted
 
It can be done....I don't shoot an AR or anything in .22 caliber, for that matter (have shot cast out of my Hakim 8mm, which is gas-operated)..
Casting your own is fine, but why bother, unless you just want to prove you can do it. Jacketed and cast bullets for economical plinking are currently available, so why take the time and effort to make what are likely to be more expensive bullets?
Personally, I'd save the cast bullet shooting for a bolt gun or for something like a single-shot rifle.
Now that you mention it, I may still have an un-used Lee mold for a .22 caliber bullet.... I'll take a look later today.

Negative on the mold; must have sold it.

I acquired some cast bullets in a collection, but I don't recall ever shooting any of my reloads when I had the Model 70 in .223 Remington...
 
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The main issue with .224 cast bullets is variation in weight. This occurs through voids in the pour and casting at different temperatures. So accuracy is affected. Most of which can be avoided by screening the bullets for weight.
 
Mr. Gold said:
Never done it, saw that Lee has molds for .223 and gas checks, bullets will need to pan lubed.

Asking around I got two different views:

1. Hell no, don't do it! you'll lead the barrel, the gas tube, you'll screw up the rifle.

2. Sure, why not ? Use gas checks, go lighter on the powder and you should be fine.

Your input is welcome,

Thank you.
Click to expand...

1. Ohh no i have to clean my gun!
2. It's alot more complicate than that for accuracy but you'll be fine.

Check out castboolits.com also lookin the coating/plating section.

I cast my own, and copper plate them.the powder coat or high tech coatings will get you where you want to be.
 
NavelOfficer said:
It can be done....I don't shoot an AR or anything in .22 caliber, for that matter (have shot cast out of my Hakim 8mm, which is gas-operated)..
Casting your own is fine, but why bother, unless you just want to prove you can do it. Jacketed and cast bullets for economical plinking are currently available, so why take the time and effort to make what are likely to be more expensive bullets?
Click to expand...

Price has something to do with it , and so does the "can I do it" part.

As for price - you probably get bullets cheaper than I do, i did not find anything cheaper than 8 cents per bullet after shipping.

I cast my .45 and boy is that cheaper,.. $10 (12 lbs or so) worth of lead yielded usable 300 bullets (still a nube so I had lots of rejects) and that's when I paid too much for lead. When you consider that one .45 bullet = 4 .223 bullets it gets even more interesting.(But just to keep apples to apples - we need to include the gas check, which is 3 cents).

I see now they offer the 6 cavity, .225 diameter :
http://www.titanreloading.com/molds/bullet-molds/22-cal/lee-6-cav-mold-c22555rf

I have the same for .45 and dropping 6 at a time - it's really no bid deal to cast 1000 bullets and "go home".
Will probably give this another day or two so I don't "Impulse buy" and decide. So far, I'm liking the idea :) .
 
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You can't really base it on just cost.
Seriously if I could make more money with my "free" time I would just buy bullets.

So if you can bang in a few/several hours of overtime that you normally wouldn't do to pay for your life buying bullets is "cheaper"

Let's look at it this way. Someone mentioned .08 cents per bullet shipped.
$80/1000
Now how long does it take to cast 1000 bullets. ? Let's take a look.
For me it's probably about 15 sec per drop. X 6 so with the added sorting,lubing,sizing etc....about 2 hours ?
Well for me my free time is defined as the time I am at home but can not leave for XYZ reason. ( For me it's 3 kids under 7)
So for those hours between their bedtime and mine is free time. I will load,cast,clean,sort etc.
So,for me casting is a viable option.
I'm not so sure I would cast for a AR other than knowing it can done if needed.
So,because my free time is mine and basically not a,paying gig I love the money I save casting and,shooting my own loads.
I spent very little money up front for my smelting and casting set up.
Lead is virtually free....I think I have maybe 135$ cash money into my 1600lbs of assorted lead.
Same with my gear....most was had for free or close to it.
I based my cost on my first 500lbs of smelted lead down to loaded ammo. 30-06 cast loads run me 8-15 cents each. Depending on powder and gas checked or not.
 
Steve Marshall said:
The main issue with .224 cast bullets is variation in weight. This occurs through voids in the pour and casting at different temperatures. So accuracy is affected. Most of which can be avoided by screening the bullets for weight.
Click to expand...

Is this something unique to the 22cal bullets?
I cast some 80grain 32 cal bullets and seldom have a issue with fill out once the mold and lead is at proper temp.....that's the smallest bullet I cast.
 
Sure can. The main issues/limitations are going to be:

1) low velocity due to fragmentation that will occur at normal loads
2) Accuracy limitation due to #1 and the inherent inconsistency of casting

If you've got spare time and patience go for it. Personally reloading bottleneck cartridges is already so time consuming with brass prep and additional tumbling of finished rounds to remove lube I couldn't fathom adding even more time. On top of that I like hitting what I'm aiming at.
 
xtry51 said:
Sure can. The main issues/limitations are going to be:

1) low velocity due to fragmentation that will occur at normal loads
2) Accuracy limitation due to #1 and the inherent inconsistency of casting

If you've got spare time and patience go for it. Personally reloading bottleneck cartridges is already so time consuming with brass prep and additional tumbling of finished rounds to remove lube I couldn't fathom adding even more time. On top of that I like hitting what I'm aiming at.
Click to expand...

Hmm I have been able to get much better accuracy from my mosin 91/30 with cast loads than with surplus or any jacket reloads I have tested.

Was able to shoot as well as any jacketed ammo I ever tried out of my 1903a3 shooting prone with a sling.


I do agree though if you don't have free time....I do
Or a love of doing it...... I do
Don't bother....
Cast loads can be very accurate.
My cast bullets I use for 30-06 vary only a few grains as long as I don't change alloy.
My 200 grain bullets I cast will drop 205-208 grains .
 
I think you'll find the smaller diameter of round coupled with much lighter weight will not be as easy to master as it is with those larger calibers. You're talking about removing 600-1,000 fps from a hot 5.56 load and dealing with a round so small it's going to destabilize much faster due to the casting inconsistency.

I'm not saying you CAN'T get an accurate load. I'm just saying it's not going to be anywhere as easy to accomplish as it is in those larger calibers. If you're going to dive in, keep us posted. I'd like to see the results.
 
xtry51 said:
I think you'll find the smaller diameter of round coupled with much lighter weight will not be as easy to master as it is with those larger calibers. You're talking about removing 600-1,000 fps from a hot 5.56 load and dealing with a round so small it's going to destabilize much faster due to the casting inconsistency.

I'm not saying you CAN'T get an accurate load. I'm just saying it's not going to be anywhere as easy to accomplish as it is in those larger calibers. If you're going to dive in, keep us posted. I'd like to see the results.
Click to expand...

I won't be doing much until the dead of winter....
 
xtry51 said:
If you're going to dive in, keep us posted. I'd like to see the results.
Click to expand...

No problem will do,
I'll paste this here for future reference, before I'll toss the target, the cast ones are going to be from the same rifle, same cases, same powder.

This is at 100 yards, ~25 shots at target, 62rn FMJ, CFE 223 24.5rn .



20150923_120704.jpg
 
Mr. Gold said:
No problem will do,
I'll paste this here for future reference, before I'll toss the target, the cast ones are going to be from the same rifle, same cases, same powder.

This is at 100 yards, ~25 shots at target, 62rn FMJ, CFE 223 24.5rn .



20150923_120704.jpg
Click to expand...

I think even cast bullets will improve on accuracy vs the 62 grain fmj bullets.
 
mac1911 said:
I think even cast bullets will improve on accuracy vs the 62 grain fmj bullets.
Click to expand...

I,need some random lee stuff so I think I might order the 2 cavity mold? To bad they didn't go a little heavier.....
Now what twist is going to be best for a 1600-2400fps 55 grain cast 22?
 
mac1911 said:
I,need some random lee stuff so I think I might order the 2 cavity mold? To bad they didn't go a little heavier.....
Now what twist is going to be best for a 1600-2400fps 55 grain cast 22?
Click to expand...

From what I read on people nothing, the 55rn mold yields ~60-62rn weight bullets. Will probably depend on competition of alloy used and vary individually/between casting sessions.

For what it's worth, the .45 6cav 200rn mold I have yields 208-210rn bullets with WW and some completely unscientific amount of solder added per 10lbs of WW.

I don't have much choice, I have one barrel and it's 1:9, Stag Arms.

Unless, of course, someone would like to donate a barrel for the tests.. [laugh] hey, by all means..

I've looked around the interwebs a bit, but I'll ask here too:

Any input as to grains of powder ? I assume CFE223 is not the best candidate, but, that's what I have, so .. that's what I'll have to use. (I looked and looked for IMR 4320, was nowhere to be found).
 
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Mr. Gold said:
From what I read on people nothing, the 55rn mold yields ~60-62rn weight bullets. Will probably depend on competition of alloy used and vary individually/between casting sessions.

For what it's worth, the .45 6cav 200rn mold I have yields 208-210rn bullets with WW and some completely unscientific amount of solder added per 10lbs of WW.

I don't have much choice, I have one barrel and it's 1:9, Stag Arms.

Unless, of course, someone would like to donate a barrel for the tests.. [laugh] hey, by all means..

I've looked around the interwebs a bit, but I'll ask here too:

Any input as to grains of powder ? I assume CFE223 is not the best candidate, but, that's what I have, so .. that's what I'll have to use. (I looked and looked for IMR 4320, was nowhere to be found).
Click to expand...

I have been using cfe223 and I don't think it's going to do well with cast.
The powder seems to like the higher end of powder charges.
I would try H 4895 it's the only powder in the hodgdon line that hodgdon says is,safe to reduce.
I like it a lot and has changed my out look on 2 rifles 91/30 and a lee Enfield none of which shot very well until I started loading cast for them.
You can take the max charge of H4895 multiply that by .6 and come up,with your starting load.
Work up until you find accuracy/functioning
I use wheel weights with a little tin. Although I'm not sure how fast you can shoot this alloy with out problems. I'm getting close to 2000fps with 30-06 loads.

For more info on reduced loads goto hodgdon home page. Sub section "data" then find the reduced rifle loads section.

I glanced through this guy's cast for AR post a,while back.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=r9zQg5SEDx4
 
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I've been casting my own .223 ammo for about 3 years. I'm using a 55 grain Mihec boolit and Varget powder or BLC2. I use my own gas checks, and with reduced loads, I have pretty good accuracy. Leading has never been a problem with my AR. The biggest issue I had was figuring out the right amount of crimp to use. With cast, if you don't crimp at all, your bullets will end up inside the cases after a few rounds are fired. I also lube and size all of mine on my Saco. Good luck. It can be done.
 
FWIW, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (3rd) lists a 54g GC bullet (#225462) as follows:
H110: 13.7g to 18.0g 2120 fps to 2699 fps
SR-4759: 11.3g to 17.7g 1762 to 2611
748: 19.8g to 26.0g 1902 to 2697
All in Remington cases and with CCI 450 primers. Plenty of pistol powder loads, too.

Lyman 47th: #225646 55g GC
SR-4759: 13.0g to 16.5g 2224 to 2657
748: 25.0g to 29.4(C) 2563 to 3037

All fired from Universal Receiver

Needless to say, no data in Ideal #35 (1948).
 
Mr. Gold said:
Alright, placed orders:

Mold:

http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-6-cav-mold-c22555rf

Sizing kit:

http://www.titanreloading.com/lube-sizing-kit/225-lee-bullet-lubricating-sizing-kit

Gas checks:

http://www.titanreloading.com/gas-checks/22-cal-gas-checks-hornady-1000

Lube:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321621910824
Click to expand...

I think that bullet profile will work out well for you..i prefer the 60-62 grain myself.
Your lube choice is similar to what i use to use.Are you going to pan lube?
I find a slightly harder lube preforms better in rifle and will work out better when pan lubing.
I prefer using a lubrisizer because it works better with soft lube which i prefer for winter lube in handgun.
Lubrisizers are more convenient especially with small or hard to stand up projectiles.
 
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Norman P. lists one 22 caliber bullet... per hundred...
22 cal Rifle – 60gr GCSP $7.55 cast $7.80 coated
Hard to even justify lighting the furnace at these prices.
 
Mr. Gold said:
Alright, placed orders:

Mold:

http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-6-cav-mold-c22555rf

Sizing kit:

http://www.titanreloading.com/lube-sizing-kit/225-lee-bullet-lubricating-sizing-kit

Gas checks:

http://www.titanreloading.com/gas-checks/22-cal-gas-checks-hornady-1000

Lube:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321621910824
Click to expand...

Don't forget your handles!
Looks,like a nice bullet.
I have been pan lubing my rifle bullets with BAC from white label lube. Pushed as fast as 1900fps.
I,have been thinking of a lube sister with a heater and switch to the red lube. I just don't know which lube sister to get. Plus it's another investment I have a hard time doing when I look,at the cost of the sizing dies and such. I have been lucky that when I'm done pan sizing I can pop the bullets out and the lube stays in the grooveon all my bullet choices.
 
Far be it for me to rain on your party... ...cast away!
I realize many cast for the joy and satisfaction. As for me and my spartan set-up, it is easier just to buy from another caster...for the time being, at least.
 
MGnoob said:
It isn't all about cost..but i'll bite.
$7.55/100=$.076

Here's 13,000 of my cast .223
13,000 × .01 =$130 vs 13,000×.076=$988 then factor the pleasure i get from making them.
http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/M...150905_012909_zpsjy8qnrgj.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
Click to expand...

There really isn't a answer to cost savings. As we tend to exclude the value of our time.
Your free time must be free...... my definition of free time is. Any free time that you could not be making money ! Some of us have lots of free time , some of us have lots of time to actually make money.

See now,ask,your self are you willing to have a 500% Mark up and under sell this guy and sell your bullets at 5 cents each?
I like to cast and smelt my own. There's not much to do once the kids are in bed and the house is,in order. For me to make more money working would require a baby sitter....
Slowly though my time or my will to do the smelting and casting is slowing.
What I hope to do in the next year or so is cast about 10+ years worth of bullets to have on hand.
 

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