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Anybody ever shot a criminal?
- Thread starter Shane
- Start date
That's one question that generally doesn't get asked, just like you don't ever ask a soldier if he's ever killed anyone.
I'm not saying that it never gets answered but most of the time the question is not appreciated by someone who has been put in that situation..too many bad memories for the answerer.
I'm not saying that it never gets answered but most of the time the question is not appreciated by someone who has been put in that situation..too many bad memories for the answerer.
That was very well put my friend.
The only time I hear that question is when we invite a Policeman to come and talk to our Cub Scouts. Consistently every year without fail one kid asks the question. But everyone including the Policeman knows it's just because they are little boys.
J
Jose
I stronly suggest that you pay a criminal defense attorney to answer this for you.
Andrew Branca's book "The law of self defense" is quite good, but out of print. He's a MA attorney, btw.
Ayoob's (http://www.ayoob.com) books also give a good general introduction to the subject. I would suggest first doing some reading and then contacting a knowledgeable MA attorney, that way you'll have a better grounding in the basics and have some specific questions to ask.
See this is precisely what I'm getting at. Thank you Jose for your delightful remark. Other's missed the ball entirely.
Now why would you need a criminal defense attorney if you used your lawfully owned/carried firearm to waste some bad guy?
What I was hoping for was somebody who's had to do it, could explain how the system treated them. Thats all I'm looking for.
It seems like a valid question, and if somebody with some knowledge would step up to the plate and forget how many people they killed in wartime and focus on occurences within the continental United States, preferably Massachusetts.
Think about it. Would such a discussion not benefit every shooter on this forum? So before people start throwing insults my way for asking a non-PC question, think about your fellow shooters.
Thanks. I love replies without scorn and insults.
You are taking the Internet a little too seriously.
+1
Because Criminal Defense Attorney's also defend people who have been wrongly accused of murder when using deadly force. What more knowledgeable person would there be?
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Uhh, because this is MA, and the defender is typically told/treated as
guilty until he proves otherwise. Many places this is the rule rather
than the exception. Each state, and even sometimes, locality, treats
self defense shootings/incidents differently.
It all depends on the location and the circumstances involved. Many
places are going to drag you through the wringer, and generally treat
you like crap. Every now and then you hear from someone that got
treated fairly, but thats the exception. In MA they will treat you
like a criminal until proven otherwise. (At least that's what people have
told me... ).
The problem with this question is it's like asking "has anyone ever got into a major car accident before?"
The answers you're going to get will vary widely depending upon the variables involved.
It isn't that it's PC or not.... most people just simply don't want to talk
about it. The whole thing can be pretty traumatic, even if one knows
that they are right in defending themselves. After the dust settles some
people come out and talk about it, but most of them just want to move on
with their lives. Some people also don't say much because their lawyer
told them to clam up about it. (perhaps to protect from civil suits,
maybe?).
If you look around on the boards on the net, you can find a few accounts, or
at least some that appear to be fairly realistic. There was a fellow on GT
from like CO, who described the "bad day" he had. After all was said and
done, he lost 30K in legal fees, and a girlfriend. (she was traumatized by
his actions, for some bizarre reason, so she broke up with him). He's
still alive, though.
-Mike
J
Jose
Because the possibility exists that if you do not know ahead of time what to say and do if you have to do the deed, you could hand a publicity-hungry and/or anti-self defense prosecutor a rope with which to hang you.
You could even tie the noose and put it around your neck before you give him the rope.
All he would then need to do is push you off the gallows.
When you cause the death of another whether justified or not, there is a an investigation. You need a lawyer to protect your rights. This isn't only for Massachusetts but ant other state where you may kill someone.
It's why police officers have lawyers on retainer.
I have one.
1. I interpreted this question to have the implicit qualifier "as a civilian" within it. If so, my answer is "No."
2. You might want to do some research in the news paper files for an incident that happened in the Town of Arlington in February, 2002. (Same day that Mitt Romney made his appearance in Belmont, which led to Bill Monaghan's "Run, Mitt, Run" speech.) The incident happened on Silk Street, which might make a good search term.
Basically, a local no-good walked into someone's house. He was apparently strung out and looking for cash with which to score some more. One female was at home. She confronted him and ordered him to leave. He kept walking in her direction. So far as I am aware, his hands were empty, but he was a big, strapping kid. The homeowner producted a .380 auto and plugged him, not fatally.
All this happend about 1400. By 1700, Arlington PD had issued a statement to the media exonerating the homeowner.
3. The trouble with this example, and, indeed, with the question itself, is that it assumes that there is a more or less standard pattern that could be expected to be applied in any like situation. I don't believe that to be the case. I suspect the reaction of the local PD to essntially identical facts would vary widely.
2. You might want to do some research in the news paper files for an incident that happened in the Town of Arlington in February, 2002. (Same day that Mitt Romney made his appearance in Belmont, which led to Bill Monaghan's "Run, Mitt, Run" speech.) The incident happened on Silk Street, which might make a good search term.
Basically, a local no-good walked into someone's house. He was apparently strung out and looking for cash with which to score some more. One female was at home. She confronted him and ordered him to leave. He kept walking in her direction. So far as I am aware, his hands were empty, but he was a big, strapping kid. The homeowner producted a .380 auto and plugged him, not fatally.
All this happend about 1400. By 1700, Arlington PD had issued a statement to the media exonerating the homeowner.
3. The trouble with this example, and, indeed, with the question itself, is that it assumes that there is a more or less standard pattern that could be expected to be applied in any like situation. I don't believe that to be the case. I suspect the reaction of the local PD to essntially identical facts would vary widely.
The problem Sugar is that there are so many variables involved that even if someone put the whole story on this board, there is no guarantee that the same incident played over twice will have exactly the same outcome.
The reason everybody talks about a lawyer is because they are the only ones that have a chance of understand our rather interesting/complicant laws.
Sugar, not being a lawyer but a man of common sense (I can hear the snickering in the background) if you fear for your life in a breakin. Does it matter if you get your license pulled for a while as long as you are alive? People have recover their license many time before.
Hey guys/gals what happen to the car dealer's case (I believe it was Metro West) when the owner came home from vacation early and set off the alarm and when police showed up to investigate and entered the house after checking with neighbors the owner mistook the cops for burgulars and shot the cop. I read he wasn't arrest but he did have his license suspend. Is this still under investigation?
Fee
The reason everybody talks about a lawyer is because they are the only ones that have a chance of understand our rather interesting/complicant laws.
Sugar, not being a lawyer but a man of common sense (I can hear the snickering in the background) if you fear for your life in a breakin. Does it matter if you get your license pulled for a while as long as you are alive? People have recover their license many time before.
Hey guys/gals what happen to the car dealer's case (I believe it was Metro West) when the owner came home from vacation early and set off the alarm and when police showed up to investigate and entered the house after checking with neighbors the owner mistook the cops for burgulars and shot the cop. I read he wasn't arrest but he did have his license suspend. Is this still under investigation?
Fee
J
Jose
I am not concerned about a license revocation (such things do not exist here).
I am concerned about going to prison because I said something I shouldn't have and gave ammo to a dickhead in the DA's office.
I am concerned about going to prison because I said something I shouldn't have and gave ammo to a dickhead in the DA's office.
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Sugar,
I was just going to sit this one out![[coffee]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/028.gif "Coffee [coffee]")
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
, but I must put in my $0.02.
I'm not sure how long you've been around firearms, or wether you have your license yet, but here are a few pointers:
- Take the GOAL Concealed Carry course. Darius & Jon cover all the legal aspects of carrying a firearm.
- READ!!!! Read books, magazines, etc... Some good authors to start with are Massad Ayoub, David Kenik, Jeff Cooper, Dave Grossman, etc....
- When asking if others ever popped a cap in someone's as*, don't be surprised if it's seen as an intrusive question.
I was just going to sit this one out
, but I must put in my $0.02. I'm not sure how long you've been around firearms, or wether you have your license yet, but here are a few pointers:
- Take the GOAL Concealed Carry course. Darius & Jon cover all the legal aspects of carrying a firearm.
- READ!!!! Read books, magazines, etc... Some good authors to start with are Massad Ayoub, David Kenik, Jeff Cooper, Dave Grossman, etc....
- When asking if others ever popped a cap in someone's as*, don't be surprised if it's seen as an intrusive question.
If you think women get special treatment you ought to do some research on Linda Hamilton.
Excepts from Sugar's posts:
With these comments, I sense a way too light hearted attitude about a subject that is about the most serious one anyone could ever experience.
Even if I had an experience that I was willing to talk about, I don't think I would talk about it to someone that showed such callous attitude about such a serious subject.
If you want to learn something about a subject from someone who is in a position to inform, a little more respect for their situation and feelings would be very appropriate.
I suspect you are very young and inexperienced in many things. I hope you learn to express yourself in a little more appropriate manner in the future. You are likely to get more and better answers when the proper respect is shown.
With these comments, I sense a way too light hearted attitude about a subject that is about the most serious one anyone could ever experience.
Even if I had an experience that I was willing to talk about, I don't think I would talk about it to someone that showed such callous attitude about such a serious subject.
If you want to learn something about a subject from someone who is in a position to inform, a little more respect for their situation and feelings would be very appropriate.
I suspect you are very young and inexperienced in many things. I hope you learn to express yourself in a little more appropriate manner in the future. You are likely to get more and better answers when the proper respect is shown.
Huh? Scorn and insults? I'm sorry, but I completely don't understand what it was that I wrote that you consider scornful and insulting.
Time for the instant replay. You asked:
I responded:
You asked for some books, so I pointed you towards Andrew Branca's book and Ayoob's books. How is that scornful or insulting?
Other folks suggested that you contact an attorney. I suggested that doing some reading before contacting an attorney would be a good idea. That way it would cost you less money, since the reading would probably answer some questions before you got to the attorney. $20 for a book is a lot cheaper than $200 per hour. That suggestion is scornful or insulting? How? Please explain.
Show me where my response (which you quoted) was scornful or insulting. I've lost my temper in the past and flamed people, been called on it, and apologized. But I truly don't understand why you think what I wrote was scornful or insulting. You asked for a pointer to some books and I provided you with some. How is that scornful or insulting?
If you read some of the books that I pointed you towards (or take Ayoob's LFI-1), then you might understand why you would need a skillful defense attorney. There are more than a few people who used deadly force to defend themselves and wound up serving long jail terms. Massad Ayoob has served as an expert witness for several who met this fate.
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Linda Hamilton's fundamental mistake after the fact was opting of a bench, rather than jury, trial.
This is a basic decision and, in my opinion, opting for a bench trail was a fundamental mistake that should have even been visible without the benefit of hindsight. Of course, if someone believes in their innocence, and the attorney is expaining that voir dire will cost a couple of $K extra, it could be tempting to opt for a bench trial. The only problem is that the prosecurtion then needs to convince 1 person, rather than 6 or 12, of guilt.
Excellent points, thank you. Definitely something to keep in mind if any of us are ever caught in this sort of situation.
Her story was just tragic, no matter whose fault/mistake/error in judgment it was.
I thought that Ohio just got CCW? Aren't there grounds for dismissal or qualifiers to obtain a CCW.
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