So Ive been around alot of ar15 and m4s and have decided that its time i get away from my ak's and get into the market for 223...What i cant figure out is whether there is any benefit to an ar15 rifle over an ar15 pistol... If I buy the pistol then I have a registered pistol lower, which means i have no need to buy a short barrel upper and $200 tax stamp. Also I could, for some crazy reason, carry it fully loaded in my vehicle. If i want the accuracy I can just get a long barreled upper and even put a stock on the pistol lower...IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS IDEA????
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Any downside to a ar15 pistol??
- Thread starter iefstath
- Start date
CRSIII
NES Member
WTF!!! Are you serious???
This could get interesting...![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
Play nice!
I don't think you can do what you are thinking of doing, without trouble (leagle).
Someone wiser than I will probably be along shortly.
Everything.
First of all, AR pistols are stupid, loud, obnoxious, etc.
Second, they aren't AWB legal, so a no go in MA (if you want to make a new one.)
Third, there is no such thing as a "registered pistol" lower. A stripped lower is a stripped lower.
Four, depending on your interpretation of the Thompson/Center case, once you assemble your pistol into a rifle, it will forever be a rifle, and can't be restored into a pistol configuration without paying for a tax stamp.
I'm sure there are other good reasons, but those are the ones that come to mind first...
--EasyD
If I remember correctly once its a registered pistol it can't have a stock or a VFG as you it would put the weapon in violation of NFA.
Not 100% sure on the info though.
In this thread there are 2 letters from the ATF, the 2nd letter looks to answer the questions here.
Not 100% sure on the info though.
In this thread there are 2 letters from the ATF, the 2nd letter looks to answer the questions here.
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I believe if the lower starts as a rifle, then it will forever be a rifle. If the first configuration is a pistol(where legal) it can be swapped back and forth, obviously avoiding making SBR while you swapping parts.
Don't let Doobie hear you say that
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I can't comment specifically on an AR stripped lower, but there are other traditional "rifle" receivers that have been used to make pistols. The "Mares Leg" comes to mind. It's a Winchester 92 or 94 receiver with a cut down stock and barrel. The ATF ruling was that they can NOT legally be built on a receiver that was originally sold as a rifle, but they are legal if built from scratch on a NEW receiver and registered as a handgun.
In the T/C case, the ruling stated that a buttstock can NOT legally be attached to a Contender frame in conjunction with a barrel under 16". Nor can a (rifle) barrel of over 16" be used when a pistol grip is attached. So basically it can be EITHER a pistol or a rifle, but NOT a hybrid of mixed componenets. Also, the mere posession of the parts necessary to assemble the frame into an illegal configuration is NOT a crime, unless it's actually assembled into such a configuration. (buttstock w/short bbl or pistol grip w/long bbl)
BTW, T/C's can no longer be sold in Mass because it's possible to make a carbine into a pistol. However, when they were available for sale here, if you ordered them as a FRAME ONLY (like I did with two) they were shipped with a pistol grip and thus registered as a pistol. I own three and two of them are currently configured as carbines and it's perfectly legal for me to reconfigure them back into pistols because that's what they're registered as.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
Talk about pistols, Im building a FAL Pistol.
All Im missing is the correct barrel.
Pic if rather large so I leave it as a link.
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3928&stc=1&d=1239596776
All Im missing is the correct barrel.
Pic if rather large so I leave it as a link.
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3928&stc=1&d=1239596776
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gerrycaruso
NES Member
I don't think you can put a stock on a handgun other than a black powder handgun. Also, short barreled AR's often have reliability problems because of the short gas tube. They're also loud. I have an M16 with an 11.5" barrel and it's pretty loud but nothing compared to a 7". All that said,if you want an AR pistol then you should have one.Recreational shooting is about fun not practicality.
My thinking here was not so much to always have a ar pistol but to have multiple uppers and then a lower that could legally be short barreled, just without the stock at that time, possibly being a really small package with some serious stopping power gains over a regular hand gun. I was really just trying to get an idea of where I would stand in legal terms.
You'll break your wrist with that !
SemiAutoSam
Banned
Don't let Doobie hear you say that
Why not? a gun to match me....
Ask the ATF 1 question 10 times, you'll get 20 different answers.
Basically the common rule of thumb to follow is....
Use a lower that has never been a rifle. Don't know for sure if it was never a rifle? Don't use it.
If you make it a pistol. keep it a pistol forever.
Never put a longer than 15.9" barrel on the pistol.
Never put the 16" or less barrel a rifle; unless it is a registered SBR.
Don't have more 15.9" or less barrels than you have pistol or SBR lowers.
Don't have more 16" or greater barrels than you have rifle lowers.
Have fun, enjoy, and hope you don't get fschked by the ATF; they enjoy finding technicalities, that is why they are the Bureau of Arbitrary Technicalities, Findings, and Edicts. Yes, they are part of the IRS, that is why they like fschking people over so much.
So you can't have more than one upper for your SBR registered lower? I'm hoping to do a SBR at some point, and figured pay for the tax stamp once and have a handful of options.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
SemiAutoSam
Banned
On the Federal level If you have a tax stamp and a SBR or MG you can have as many -16" barrels as you like.
If you didn't have the Tax Stamp or SOT status then it could be looked at as constructive possession.
If you didn't have the Tax Stamp or SOT status then it could be looked at as constructive possession.
The Kel-Tec PLR-16 has intrigued me for some time. This would be superior to most other types of PDWs in my opinion. Small and handy to use/maneuver. It's piston rather than gas blowback and reportedly very accurate at 100 meters.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
IMO no as the SB upper could also be used if one owns a MG.
And in that case the upper is just another upper.
The BATF website also talks about marriage between the upper and lower.
I remember its optional in the case of the MG, not sure about the SBR.
Here is the link.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/
And in that case the upper is just another upper.
The BATF website also talks about marriage between the upper and lower.
I remember its optional in the case of the MG, not sure about the SBR.
Here is the link.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/
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