Ammo storage

[Prepper]

Yes this is a dup, but the dups didn't answer my question fully. From other threads, apparently ammo in MA must be "locked up". What's the definition of "locked", though? I'm sure that a gun safe would suffice, only problem is I tried fitting all my ammo and guns into the one safe and they won't all fit properly together. Plus, the shelf is buckling under the weight. Looks like I can be legal if I leave the guns outside the gun safe with locks on them, and the ammo in the safe. (Which defeats the purpose of having the safe to begin with.)

Is a lame hollow wooden closet door with hinges on the outside and a doorknob that takes a key sufficient? (Even an idiot can get through that; just pull the pins on the hinge.)

I have a locking metal file cabinet, but again the weight of the ammo crushes the poor thing, so I can't do that.

Locking toolbox perhaps? I haven't found a good one yet; most of them are way too small since they're designed for, well, tools! Not entire cases of ammo.

 

[jhrosier]

Perhaps some heavy duty shelves built in to a non-functioning refrigerator or upright freezer would work.
I had someone offer me an old paint (flammables) locker and I now wish that I had accepted.
Even one of the cheap gun "security" cabinets should be more than adequate.

 

[Lugnut]

I lock some of my ammo in a closet similar to what you described- although the door is solid. I think it's legit... but INAL.

 

[Prepper]

I don't suppose the lock on the door to my house counts as "locked up"? Although, even if it did, this would of course not help if anyone else IN the house didn't have the LTC.

 

[Twigg]

As to your question:

"Locked" could mean different things to diffferent folk. For me, I interpet this to be under lock and key to prevent unauthorised "casual" access. If somebody wants to get in badly ennough they will find a way.

That being said, here is a solution which was offered to me; Take a large metal office supply cabinet - most of these lock. Remove interioir shelving and replace with steel shelving from Home Depot / Wal-Mart. Install steel shelving inside metal office supply cabiniet and cut 1/2" plywood to top each shelf with.

This is not my pic but I have done something with a similar cabinet and it holds my ammo, hunting gear, arrows, holsters, ect, ect...

Doesn't look like a safe, wife is OK with it, easy to move (When empty!) and relatively inexpensive. Hope this helps.

 

[vellnueve]

If the closet is predominantly geared for ammo/firearms storage you should be fine assuming it has a lock. I use a set of lockers I bought from a CompUSA that was going out of business, and a couple of padlocks. It has a small footprint and is secure enough for my purposes.

I don't store ammunition with firearms in the same container, except for my ready ammo in a fast safe.

 

[Prepper]

Those shelves assembled inside a cabinet looks like a good idea. I have a bunch of those same shelves already although not inside another cabinet, of course.

I was thinking something like this might be good:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=105865

except that the shelves are apparently plastic and will buckle. I could just remove the shelves entirely and stack ammo on top of itself without using any shelves to separate it. Anyone else use something like this?

 

[AntiqueWeapons.org]

I buy ammo cans from military surplus stores & put my ammo in the cans & lock the can up then put the locked can inside a footlocker that has 2 keyed locks plus an additional padlock. It took 4 men to move that footlocker into the closet which is also key locked & double padlocked

Here's pic of one of the cans

 

[Len-2A Training]

The Fire Code CMRs that defines locked container for ammo (VERY different from that for guns) should be findable here on NES. Might even be a Sticky (unsure). It lays out exactly what is required.

Your fire chief would likely NOT be pleased with a refrigerator/freezer or a real safe for storage of ammo. They likely could create a "bomb" if it got hot enough. That's why I suggest you read the CMR on this.

527 CMR 13.xx - It is findable on the web, that is where I found it and I'm pretty sure that I posted it here about 2 years ago. Look in the Gun Laws forum (forum search only works on minimum of 4 characters).

 

[jhrosier]

Interesting...
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/527013.pdf
There doesn't seem to be any particular non-commercial storage requirements for ammo, just powder & primers.

 

[Prepper]

I only have complete cartridges, all factory made. No reloading. I have lots of ammo cans but I'm not storing ammo in them; I was wondering if they were lockable. I'll try a padlock on one of them and see how well it holds.

BTW, at the guns stores I notice that none of the ammo is "locked up"... it's all just sitting around on the floor and there's a key to the shop's front door. So, why can't I do likewise with my own house?

(Or should I just stop thinking rationally? It's probably a good idea.)

 

[jhrosier]

..
Your fire chief would likely NOT be pleased with a refrigerator/freezer or a real safe for storage of ammo. They likely could create a "bomb" if it got hot enough. That's why I suggest you read the CMR on this.
..

I'm not a firefighter, however, anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that a refigerator or freezer provides protection for the contents from a fire. I would be very surprised if the rubber seals in a typical freezer could contain enough pressure to cause a problem. I agree that a proper gun safe might become a bomb, but the sheet metal security chests would probably vent pretty easy.

SAAMI used to suggest a loosely constructed wooden box with 1" walls for powder storage. I think that the CMRs reflect this.

When you think about it, the requirements for safe storage of ammo is likely to be less than for powder or primers because the cartridge case itself is, in effect, a storage container. Having the powder separated into many small increments makes the difference.

FWIW, a long time ago, in a land far away, I kept 20 or so pounds of powder for reloading in a wooden box under my bed. My thought was that if fire reached the powder it was already too late for me to worry, and if it didn't, I didn't want the powder between me and the exit.

 

[Prepper]

Interesting...
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/527013.pdf
There doesn't seem to be any particular non-commercial storage requirements for ammo, just powder & primers.

I sure hope that has nothing to do with non-commercial storage of factory-made ammo. Because there's NO WAY I or anyone else is going to be able to meet those requirements. They'd be impossible to meet without literally converting one's house into a military-grade magazine (the doc speaks of "magazines" as the type that is for bulk storage of ammo, NOT the kind that you load 10 cartridges into and insert into a pistol).

 

[Len-2A Training]

Better re-read the CMRs. Some of it addresses commercial requirements where other parts address storage in the home.

I had our fire chief address this for the members of an <unmentionable> club nearby one year. He's a good guy (even owns one gun and one box of ammo himself ) but the discussion was "eye-opening" wrt the requirements for storage.

Yes, a sheet-metal cabinet would not pose a problem. Thinking of the fridge/freezer idea, I agree but only if it is a magnetic latch on the doors. I have had others that had real latching mechanisms and they could make it into a pressurized bomb before blowing.

 

[Chris]

My ammo is all in either original boxes, or in little plastic boxes. I then load them into a bunch of milk crates (one milk crate will hold over 2000 Center Fire pistol rounds - I actually have something like 2200 45 ACP in one) and then use a double padlock on a piece of pine board over the top.

Sure, it could be defeated fairly easily with tools, but you can't pull a box out the openings and it isn't going to overpressure.

Since the purpose of this is Fire Safety, not criminal issues, my enclosed design is more than sufficient.

 

[Len-2A Training]

But . . . my fire chief admitted that whoever wrote the CMR was actually addressing criminal issues (at least for some parts of it) and NOT fire safety. No doubt a "side of beef" and his boss Queen Cheryl or the "Brady Bunch" had a hand in those fire regs (while nobody was watching)!

 

[vellnueve]

My lockers have small holes and vents all over them presumably for airing oiut smelly clothing, so I'm betting that that would reduce the chance of anything really bad happening in a fire.

 

[Prepper]

I buy ammo cans from military surplus stores & put my ammo in the cans & lock the can up then put the locked can inside a footlocker that has 2 keyed locks plus an additional padlock. It took 4 men to move that footlocker into the closet which is also key locked & double padlocked

Here's pic of one of the cans

I just managed to do this successfully for a smaller ammo can. Didn't work for the larger ones, tried several different locks that I had around. I also tried a cable lock on the larger one but that didn't prevent me from being able to open it.

I managed to put half the ammo in a 24" long metal Husky black-colored tool box that Home Depot currently sells for $40 (the "old fashioned" kind, just a rectangular metal box with latches and handle on the lid). I put a padlock on each of the two latches. It's not a lot of fun to move when full, but I intend to just leave it there. Think that'd suffice? It is locked reasonably well unless someone has a pry bar with them.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Prepper, yes it sounds reasonable.

 

[KMaurer]

Unless you've got it packed tighter than any freezer or refrigerator I've ever seen, the locking mechanism wouldn't make any difference, since there's plenty of air space inside. The overpressure would be small enough that it wouldn't pose a real danger, but an most blow a seal. Remember that most units have a drain plug which would also serve to allow venting any overpressure.

Ken