Ammo shortages and new shooters

[Lugnut]

I try to buy in relatively large quantities and keep a fair amount in stock. That is true of toilet paper and ammunition. We've got a big basement

Response to M1911 and others:

Fair enough. FWIW I too have large quantities on hand. When I reload for a given caliber I keep thousands on hand. I prefer to do my reloading in the cool seasons and not in the muggy summers or freezing winters. I didn't just start doing this when Obama got into office though.

I realize it's a free market although some dealers restrict quantities for sale lately. What bothers me is the potential short term situation where new shooters or active shooters will be discouraged an turn away from the sport because they just don't have the time to search 20 Walmarts/dealers for ammo to shoot.

So yeah... you can buy up every last WWB you can find so you will be ready for the zoombies or the next revolution. You have every right to do that. But take a sec to consider the impact on others that have ZERO ammo shoot before you add to your stash of 50,000 rounds.

Oh- and YES I do think this is a temporary market thing... not a UN/Obama conspiracy.

 

[M1911]

I'm not building my stockpile. I'm just trying to keep it from diminishing too much and finding enough ammo for a shoot for my wife's company.

 

[Lugnut]

I'm not building my stockpile. I'm just trying to keep it from diminishing too much and finding enough ammo for a shoot for my wife's company.

Ditto. I haven't used but a couple hundred rounds of commercial ammo in the last year. I shoot with people that don't reload and can't find stuff now though.

 

[drgrant]

Keep in mind a lot of the people you guys are accusing of "hoarding" have probably been buying the same amount of ammo more or less every year for the past 4+ years, so they're not really the ones pushing the envelope on the demand. The industry already dealt with "us" pretty readily. Rather, it's a metric ton of new shooters (as M1911 states) and -maybe- a few "e-mail circle tinfoilers" running around buying up whatever they can.


-Mike

 

[wolf223]

I honestly can't understand why people "collect" ammo... all I can say is I shoot hundreds of rounds per week and getting components is a PITA! What I buy... I will shoot.

Think about it guys... do you really think they'll ban ammo anytime soon???

yes..

I try to buy in relatively large quantities and keep a fair amount in stock. That is true of toilet paper and ammunition. We've got a big basement

can't have enough TP.

i'm scared of a ban, total collapse of govt leading to civil unrest and the rise of the zombies (Terminator - Salvation)

i have [STRIKE]20[/STRIKE] 19 rounds to fight to the death with. the last one is for me.

that's is all need. the rest is just in case...

 

[Lugnut]

Keep in mind a lot of the people you guys are accusing of "hoarding" have probably been buying the same amount of ammo more or less every year for the past 4+ years, so they're not really the ones pushing the envelope on the demand. The industry already dealt with "us" pretty readily.

I mostly agree as my post says above yours. However I will say that lots of reloaders I know that would usually only keep 5-10K on hand have placed orders of 20-50k recently! There are some that are stockpiling ammo more than they ever had.. this is a fact.

Rather, it's a metric ton of new shooters (as M1911 states) and -maybe- a few "e-mail circle tinfoilers" running around buying up whatever they can.
-Mike

Maybe... I guess that's not a bad thing in the long run. Unless they get discouraged because they can't find anything!

 

[RI_John]

I don't know about the rest of you but I am getting ready for the Zombie attack. Need mucho ammo for that

I'm confused, why is that funny? You ARE going to need plenty of ammo when the Zombies come, and you're going to need to be supplying friends and neighbors too. You're going to need plenty of shooters to take out hordes of the Undead. That means extra weapons AND extra ammo. Lots of it.

Please don't take such a serious issue and make a joke about it.

 

[drgrant]

Ditto. I haven't used but a couple hundred rounds of commercial ammo in the last year. I shoot with people that don't reload and can't find stuff now though.

Is it because they went to Wal Mart, saw bare shelves and then threw their
hands up in the air?

I'm not disputing that it's harder to get, but it's not impossible. Over the past month I still could have filled up my car trunk with 9mm and .45 if I really wanted to spend the money. (I've been reloading both of these for awhile ago, so I haven't had a need... but still..... )

In some cases it's more likely to be "I don't want to pay what the gun store is selling it for" as opposed to not being able to buy it at all.

-Mike

 

[wolf223]

*another option is to put something up for trade... good way to score some ammo

 

[RI_John]

I know that speculators are contributing to the shortage too. I personally know 2 guys that worked as a team in southern Rhode Island and would hit up the local WalMarts at 7:00am whenever shipments came in and buy up ALL the handgun ammo.

They would call every Walmart within a 25-30 mile radius every night of the week to find out when the deliveries came in at night. The Walmart workers would unload the ammo from the trucks at night between 9pm-10pm, lock it up, and then stock it first thing in the a.m. These 2 guys would split up and each would be at the door of whatever Walmart had the ammo that day just as the store opened and wouldn't go to the Sporting Goods section but go to the loading area back door and intercept the guys bringing in the boxes to the ammo shelves and buy ALL of it on the spot. 9mm, 38 special, 45ACP, 357 Mag, and 44 Mag. All of those calibers.

They almost got the sh** beat out of them on more than one occasion when the other guys that knew of the shipment were lined up in orderly fashion at the Sporting Goods desk at the same time and saw that there was nothing left because it was ALL bought up by the interceptors.

Then they would list it on Gunbroker that day and price it for a quick sale to make a 30-50% profit guaranteed. They did this for the months of January through April and only stopped when the 6 box limit came into being. This ruined their business model, though they still do it to a lesser extent and were forced to expand into trying the same thing at Dick's.

I'm pretty sure these 2 knuckleheads weren't/aren't the only ones doing similar things.

 

[drgrant]

I mostly agree as my post says above yours. However I will say that lots of reloaders I know that would usually only keep 5-10K on hand have placed orders of 20-50k recently! There are some that are stockpiling ammo more than they ever had.. this is a fact.

Are they really stockpiling ammo, or just trying to hedge against price increases? I'd bet a lot of folks are betting that primer prices are going
to become stupid after the dust finally settles, and if they can lock in orders at existing prices, they're going to do it. Can't say that I'd blame them.

Maybe... I guess that's not a bad thing in the long run. Unless they get discouraged because they can't find anything!

IMO some people might shoot less than they planned, but I don't think people will just completely "give up" because of some likely temporary supply problems.

-Mike

 

[depicts]

I made a trade on NES two days ago that included a 500 round case of .45 ACP. I dug way back in my ammo locker and pulled out a case that I bought on sale at Dicks for less than $9 a box.

I started storing ammo when I was a kid. Whatever I bought, I'd always bring a little home. As I got older, I started buying an extra box.. "just in case".

When Deval Patrick got elected, I started getting serious about storing/aquiring/hoarding ammo and guns.

I don't have a gun I don't have ammo for, but right now I pretty much shoot .22. I'm not going to pay these prices until I have to.

 

[RG617]

It's not my concern what the next guy wants to buy or shoot until my, my families, and my friends needs are met. Sorry folks, but that's simply how it goes. If I want to "hoard" 10,000 rounds of .22LR because I found a great bulk price, that's my business. It's my money to spend in my best interest. It's not my business to worry about how my purchase might affect someone I don't know from a hole in the wall. I'm not trying to come off as a hard ass, just make a point. It's a free market society, and if buying a shitload now means more food on the table later that's how it's going to be. Charity starts at home, folks.

 

[Lugnut]

Charity starts at home, folks.

Sure... but it doesn't stop there either.

I shoot with lots of people all the time.... and if some of them can't compete because for some reason some people need to buy all they can...well... I have an issue with that. I think it's irrational behavior anyway...

EDIT: 10K of .22 is not what I would call hoarding.

 

[GSG]

There are more reasons to have stock of ammo than worrying about a ban. The 2nd is about being ready/able to defend yourself, your family, and the union.

Agreed. Unless you're drowning or on fire, there's no such thing as too much ammo. When the world falls apart for a few days or months (ice storms, Hurricane Katrina, LA riots), you will no longer have the opportunity to buy guns or ammo. You need to be ahead of the curve.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I think new shooters have had little to do with the current ammo shortages.
Most new shooters can't find ammo, therefore the situation already existed before the time they woke up and bought a gun.

It is more the seasoned, experienced, long time shooters who saw the handwriting on the wall and many of whom bought lifetime supplies of ammo and reloading supplies to avoid all the current and potential threatened legislation that has been thrown around the various legislatures in the country.
These include micro stamping, confiscatory taxation, outright bans, ect. along with material prices, fuel prices,....all of which have driven and will continue to drive up the price of ammo for the foreseeable future.

The political climate has contributed greatly to the situation also. People are frustrated and angry with the current path of ever expanding, out of control government, the state of the economy, the ever increasing crime and lawlessness, the blatant disregard for peoples rights and on and on and on.

Better to have a gun and not need it than need one and not have it.

I'm glad to see the shortages........it shows that people are waking up and realizing that "they" are responsible for their own safety and securuty, not any government hired gun.

 

[wolf223]

It's not my concern what the next guy wants to buy or shoot until my, my families, and my friends needs are met. Sorry folks, but that's simply how it goes. If I want to "hoard" 10,000 rounds of .22LR because I found a great bulk price, that's my business. It's my money to spend in my best interest. It's not my business to worry about how my purchase might affect someone I don't know from a hole in the wall. I'm not trying to come off as a hard ass, just make a point. It's a free market society, and if buying a shitload now means more food on the table later that's how it's going to be. Charity starts at home, folks.

and then there are those of us who actually care out others.

hey, do what you have to do - but YOU are part of the problem.

imagine all that ammo after your guns get stolen (SHTF).

my guns are gone, my ammo has no guns. my ass is in a pickle.

to which I'd say: my guns, my family, my ammo are plentiful, so kiss MY ass. my safety is assured and your SOL buddy.

 

[Ultimate]

I heard there were more new applicants to the Worcester Pistol & Rifle Club this last month than there was regular members. (+50)

 

[Hiltonizer]

I'm a relatively new shooter, let me give my perspective:

My LTC showed up the first week of January... there was no issue getting ammo at the time. This is when I was reading how new shooters were falling out of the woodwork. I could load up on a case or 2 of whatever ammo I chose at any gun shop between my home and Boston... (excluding Walmart of course )

In the last 2 months, I haven't been able to find one round of .45 other than the two $30 boxes of WWB at Roaches in Cambridge that had dust on them. The same 200rd pack of .223 PRVI went up $50 in 2 months time, x39 is an extra $2-3 a box, if its even in stock....

When I joined the Georgetown F+G in March, they were amazed at the meeting there were 4 of us.

IMO, there is some kind of animal instinct at play. Wild animals can sense a storm coming, I think we humans can too.... at first it was the instinct to invest in "assault" rifles.. now those are back in stock... ammo is another issue.

I felt something was imminent when I finally got off my ass to take the safety course in October.. I think others are getting the same 6th sense en masse.... I was just slightly ahead of the curve.

 

[Dench]

i started shooting in the civilian world in the summer of 08'.
the prices of a case of 7.62x39 in september ($180) compared to the prices now ($340ish) really make me wonder where the price will finally drop back to.

my AKs hungry, and my wallet is angry.

interestingly, 5.45x39 seems relatively unaffected by the craze. you can still find 1,000 rounds of that for under $190. the hard part is finding a rifle in thats mass legal...

 

[Raoul Duke]

i started shooting in the civilian world in the summer of 08'.
the prices of a case of 7.62x39 in september ($180) compared to the prices now ($340ish) really make me wonder where the price will finally drop back to.

my AKs hungry, and my wallet is angry.

interestingly, 5.45x39 seems relatively unaffected by the craze. you can still find 1,000 rounds of that for under $190. the hard part is finding a rifle in thats mass legal...

I hear you Dench. I remember thinking that the sks was going to be a cheap plinker. Now, it's just a doorstop half the time.

 

[toga]

As a relatively new shooter, I've also had similar experiences to Hiltonizer, with the difference being that I'm looking for 9mm instead of 45cal.

A couple of people in this thread have mentioned that people new to the sport/activity/culture may be discouraged by ammo shortages, and I definitely agree. Especially for those people who want to get into shooting but aren't super motivated, I could easily imagine frustration with ammo shortages leading to less involvement and/or less enthusiasm.

I think there is one more element that needs to be considered with respect to new shooters, and that is the effect ammo shortages have on their friends.

I have a list of about a dozen friends that I fully intend to take shooting. These are people who I think would be receptive to shooting and/or have expressed interest at some point. These friends of mine are all relatively young, well educated, liberal and they all vote. The sooner I get these friends to the range, the sooner they have the opportunity to get comfortable with guns and vote accordingly. These are exactly the types of people we need to "see the light" if we want to maintain widespread support for our rights, especially in the long term.

Unfortunately, without being able to buy ammo (at reasonable prices!), I can't take them out to the range. Fortunately, the shortages may be starting to ease up in time for nice weather..

 

[cekim]

Unfortunately, without being able to buy ammo (at reasonable prices!), I can't take them out to the range. Fortunately, the shortages may be starting to ease up in time for nice weather..

22LR is your friend...

Easy on limp liberal wrists, you can buy them in 500 shot bricks, the guns are usually cheap too!

Given a used P22 can be had for a carton of cigarettes and a BJ - oh wait, that's prison pricing... I mean a P22 can be had for the price of a few hundred rounds of 9mm and even less than .40/.45...

Guilt free blasting through magazines willy, nilly...

 

[Hiltonizer]

I have a list of about a dozen friends that I fully intend to take shooting. These are people who I think would be receptive to shooting and/or have expressed interest at some point. These friends of mine are all relatively young, well educated, liberal and they all vote. The sooner I get these friends to the range, the sooner they have the opportunity to get comfortable with guns and vote accordingly. These are exactly the types of people we need to "see the light" if we want to maintain widespread support for our rights, especially in the long term.

Unfortunately, without being able to buy ammo (at reasonable prices!), I can't take them out to the range. Fortunately, the shortages may be starting to ease up in time for nice weather..

THIS!

I have at least a dozen people that are interested in seeing the light and going shooting, but at this point I can barely afford to take myself. I bought a 12ga shotgun just because shells are less than 1/2 what my other guns take... even after buying clays.

Next investment is going to be a .22LR pistol and rifle.

 

[cekim]

T I bought a 12ga shotgun just because shells are less than 1/2 what my other guns take... even after buying clays.

Much fun to be had blasting those little commie clay bastages...

Next investment is going to be a .22LR pistol and rifle.

Ahh, the correct path you have chosen...

 

[Fixxah]

I have no guilt with reguard to stockpiling ammo. When I can get it I do. I reload for the three calibers that I own.

If you want the ammo get off your ass and go out and find it. This is a free society at this point, don't waste opportunity.

 

[Bugs100]

There are a lot of new shooters. My club is getting on average 70-75 a month. I think this is directly related to Boston demanding that you belong to a club.

 

[M1911]

There are a lot of new shooters. My club is getting on average 70-75 a month. I think this is directly related to Boston demanding that you belong to a club.

That has been a Boston PD requirement for decades. It hasn't changed. The reason your club is getting more applicants than usual is for some other reason (I think a combination of Obama and the economy).

 

[Lugnut]

I have no guilt with reguard to stockpiling ammo. When I can get it I do. I reload for the three calibers that I own.

If you want the ammo get off your ass and go out and find it. This is a free society at this point, don't waste opportunity.

Good for you.