Advice on sporterized 03a3

[OCB]

Hi All,
I'm looking for some advice. Parents of my best friend are looking to downsize to a smaller house. my friend's dad (we'll call him Gary) has a number of guns that he inherited from his father a number of years ago. My friend and his sibling aren't really into guns that much, and Gary has asked me for my opinion on several of his remaining guns.
One of his most interesting guns is a sporterized 03a3 that has a number of incredible carvings on the stock, and even some metal areas. it also has a post WWII Hensolt Wetzlar scope on it. The rifle is in great shape; no surface rust, smooth action, etc.
He wants to sell the gun, but was looking for my opinion on how best to do it. He isn't looking to get rich from this gun, but he considers it a piece of art (and I would tend to agree) and would like it to be appreciated as such.
My first opinion was to look into Rock Island Auction. I've seen a number of rifles with carved stocks and such sold there, so it seems like it might be a good fit. Understood that they're going to take a cut of the sale, but it seems like it might be the best way to reach a larger audience. He is wary of using sites like gunbroker, etc.
Any anyone recommend any other auction houses that might attract buyers interested in this sort of rifle? I also suggested that given the scope is probably worth ~$250-350, it probably doesn't make sense to try to sell it separately from the gun. Happy to hear dissenting opinion.

I (and Gary) appreciate any input.

Thanks.
The cell phone pics really don't do it justice...

 

[dhuze]

As a hunting rifle it will make a good one. As a Mil-surp it is never going to be returned to one. It's only going to be worth a couple hundred unless you can get it in some small local auction with two people who think it's a gem.

 

[mac1911]

I think auctions for such a rifle would be tough.
You have to hope there are people looking for a sported rifle like that.
Although the stock is nice looking I swear it was offered pre carved as a plug and play stock back when buying a 20$ surplus 1903 and turning it into a hunting gun was popular.
I have seen the same carvings on many rifles.
Now hear me out.
That scope maybe worth more OFF the rifle and sold by itself.
Kind of like putting 1500$ rims on a 2000$ car and trying to get 3500$ for the car.
RIA had a pretty high sellers premium and you still have to pay for shipping it to RIA or a buyer.

Honestly poke around on gun broker and guns America for past SOLD auctions and price the gun accordingly.

 

[OCB]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

That's really interesting, I didn't even consider that it could have been a 'mass produced' stock.

I'll do some more digging.

 

[mac1911]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.



That's really interesting, I didn't even consider that it could have been a 'mass produced' stock.

I'll do some more digging.

I could be wrong but I have seen darn near the same set up on another 1903 sporter and a U.S. pattern Enfield. Even still unless you can figure out who carved it often carved stocks are not a high value as we would like them to be.
Also is it 30-06 or some other chambering

Often guns like this are more "value" parting them out.
The mag floor plates I remember seeing at gun shows as a kid in the 80s.

as fpr that scope ? seems like they run the gamut for prices.?

 

[dhuze]

I have a sporterized MK1 That was drilled for a scope so it will never have much value either. I may change the barrel and put the correct parts on it one day, but the drill job looks sloppy to me.

 

[martin08]

I would look into the possibility that this was done by Winston Churchill of Vermont (not the British Prime Minister), or similar well known artist.

Churchill was a master engraver who did many such styled engravings. And if it can be verified, it could be worth a pretty penny.

PM me, and I'll put you in touch with my contacts at James Julia auctions. This is well worth checking out.

 

[mac1911]

I would look into the possibility that this was done by Winston Churchill of Vermont (not the British Prime Minister),

Churchill was a master engraver who did many such styled engravings. And if it can be verified, it could be worth a pretty penny.

PM me, and I'll put you in touch with my contacts at James Julia auctions. This is well worth checking out.

Nice... that would be awesome if tied to a known builder/craftsman. Might make sense to why I have seen very close design and such as I was going to gun shows with dad while camping in VT,NH,MA in the 80s... I hope this is the case.

Is this the gent http://wchurchill.com

Also OP are those initials on the trigger guard WPA?
Any known history to that. I hope it's worth something. Don't know when this one went through
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/59/1593/dwm-98#detail

 

[martin08]

Is this the gent http://wchurchill.com

That would be him. No guarantee this gun is from him, but it could be from another well known artist.

 

[Waher]

I think the quality is sufficient for it to not be considered "Bubba'd". I'd talk to either Joe Salter or Rock Island Auction. It's worth a lot more than the typical sporterized rifles out there.

 

[mac1911]

I think the quality is sufficient for it to not be considered "Bubba'd". I'd talk to either Joe Salter or Rock Island Auction. It's worth a lot more than the typical sporterized rifles out there.

Yes absolutely although I'm sure there where several under dogs we will never know about from the time frame of the popularity of converting these rifles that will keep the "value" down.
I hope for the best.

 

[Mountain]

In the first picture, ahead of the scope mount: Is there carving on the barrel/receiver area itself? Looks like it to me but I'm not certain. Carving on something other than easy bolt-on parts would be solid evidence that this rifle was customized by a talented artist. If only the bolt-on parts are carved/engraved, it still looks very, very nice but it may or may not have been customized by an artist.

 

[OCB]

Also OP are those initials on the trigger guard WPA? Any known history to that

That's what it looks like to me, though I wonder if the initials are WAP? I know it is common to have the initial of the last name larger and centered between the first and middle initials. Unfortunately I don't think they mean anything to Gary, but I will check.

In the first picture, ahead of the scope mount: Is there carving on the barrel/receiver area itself? Looks like it to me but I'm not certain. Carving on something other than easy bolt-on parts would be solid evidence that this rifle was customized by a talented artist. If only the bolt-on parts are carved/engraved, it still looks very, very nice but it may or may not have been customized by an artist.

Yes, there are some filigree-style engravings on the top of barrel forward and rear of the rear iron site.

 

[Mountain]

That's what it looks like to me, though I wonder if the initials are WAP? I know it is common to have the initial of the last name larger and centered between the first and middle initials. Unfortunately I don't think they mean anything to Gary, but I will check.



Yes, there are some filigree-style engravings on the top of barrel forward and rear of the rear iron site.

That's good news for your friend. One other thought for someone to contact is the Amoskeag Auction people. A little closer to home.

 

[martin08]

My guess would be that the initials would be personalized to a previous owner, and an artist's signature or initials would be much, much more subtle.

Also, to reiterate some advice already given. A caliber check is DEFINITELY in order. Custom works, such as this possibility, often changed barrels and calibers. It could be 300 Win. mag for all we know.

 

[mac1911]

My guess would be that the initials would be personalized to a previous owner, and an artist's signature or initials would be much, much more subtle.

Also, to reiterate some advice already given. A caliber check is DEFINITELY in order. Custom works, such as this possibility, often changed barrels and calibers. It could be 300 Win. mag for all we know.

My buddy scored a really nice rifle not fancy carved but superb wood and lusteruious blueing only to find it's a 358 UMT. Appears his uncle was a big game Hunter at distance. He managed to get 10 rounds through a friend of the family....yeah no fun shooting that gun. 250 grain bullet going 3000fps.
When another family rifle came up for adoption he was smart to ask what cal. .416 remington... ugghh

 

[Mountain]

My buddy scored a really nice rifle not fancy carved but superb wood and lusteruious blueing only to find it's a 358 UMT. Appears his uncle was a big game Hunter at distance. He managed to get 10 rounds through a friend of the family....yeah no fun shooting that gun. 250 grain bullet going 3000fps.
When another family rifle came up for adoption he was smart to ask what cal. .416 remington... ugghh

358 UMT- ouch! Full house loads in a 7mm Rem Mag are bad enough in a light hunting rifle.

 

[mac1911]

358 UMT- ouch! Full house loads in a 7mm Rem Mag are bad enough in a light hunting rifle.

I took one shot and just laughed...my friend got 4 shots off before getting scope eye on 5th shot.
His uncles best friend said they would take down elk and moose 500-800 yards out and wanted them to drop in their tracks. He shot the last 4 shots into a nice 2.5" group at 200 yards.