Advice Needed: Transfering a Never Before Registered Gun from FL to Mass

JoeyB

JoeyB

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Hey all, I have sort of a unique situation that a friend is in and was hoping for some guidance on the issue.

Around 30 years ago my friend's brother bought a Winchester 30-30 in Mass and moved to Florida. The gun was not registered in Mass or Florida, from my understanding. Fast forward 30 years and my friend's brother wants to give the gun to him.

For the sake of this posting, let's say that the gun was brought up from Florida to Mass and is now in the hands of my friend.

What needs to be done in order to get this thing properly registered and/or avoid a felony situation.

Appreciate the feedback!
 
I'll start by assuming your friend is a MA resident and his brother is a FL resident.

To avoid a felony situation, the gun must not be transferred from a FL resident to a MA resident. Interstate transfers of long guns must go through an FFL in either the buyer or seller's home states.

If the transfer is done at a FL FFL then the MA resident has 7 days to file an FA-10 from the time it is brought into MA.
If the transfer is done at a MA FFL then the FFL will take care of the FA-10.
 
Or (if the weapon is already in Mass) the properly licensed Mass resident can simply fill out a FA-10 form and check the "registration" box and mail it in.
 
WanMan99 said:
Or (if the weapon is already in Mass) the properly licensed Mass resident can simply fill out a FA-10 form and check the "registration" box and mail it in.
Click to expand...

No. That does not apply in this situation. As was posted, an interstate transfer of ownership MUST go through an FFL. As the firearm in question is a longarm, it doesn't have to be an MA FFL.
 
WanMan99 said:
Or (if the weapon is already in Mass) the properly licensed Mass resident can simply fill out a FA-10 form and check the "registration" box and mail it in.
Click to expand...

No. That would be a private, person-to-person sale across state lines, which is a federal felony. Since the seller is a resident of a different state, the transfer has to go through an FFL.

grew said:
The correct answer is "what rifle?"
Click to expand...
And risk a federal felony and lifetime disqualification from owning firearms? For what? A rifle worth a few hundred dollars? Are you kidding?
 
thanks for the answers everyone. i would assume that even if no money is exchanged and the gun in question was never originally registered in either state, that it still has to go through a FFL for ownership registration?

So the options here are (to quote EcHo):

EcHo said:
If the transfer is done at a FL FFL then the MA resident has 7 days to file an FA-10 from the time it is brought into MA.
If the transfer is done at a MA FFL then the FFL will take care of the FA-10.
Click to expand...

Either way, the gun has to be transferred through an FFL, either in MA or FL?
 
JoeyB said:
thanks for the answers everyone. i would assume that even if no money is exchanged and the gun in question was never originally registered in either state, that it still has to go through a FFL for ownership registration?
Click to expand...
It is not the registration that is the issue. The issue is the transfer. Federal law specifies that transfers between private parties who live in different states MUST go through an FFL. A transfer is a change in ownership -- it doesn't have to involve an exchange of money. This has nothing to do with the fact that MA registers firearms transactions, which is MA law and a different matter entirely. And, btw, Florida doesn't register guns.

This is covered in the ATF FAQ. Note that in this FAQ entry, the phrase "unlicensed person" means someone who does not have an FFL and the word "licensee" means an FFL:

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
Click to expand...

Full text here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-acquire

The gun has to be transferred through an FFL. That transfer will involve a federal form 4473 (two, actually) -- that completes the federal paperwork. If that transfer is done in MA, the FFL will have the buyer fill out a MA FA-10 form to register the gun in MA -- that completes the MA paperwork. If the transfer is done at an out of state FFL, then the buyer will have to obtain a MA form FA-10 and submit it to EOPS.
 
Last edited:
M1911 said:
The gun has to be transferred through an FFL. That transfer will involve a federal form 4473 (two, actually) -- that completes the federal paperwork. If that transfer is done in MA, the FFL will have the buyer fill out a MA FA-10 form to register the gun in MA -- that completes the MA paperwork. If the transfer is done at an out of state FFL, then the buyer will have to obtain a MA form FA-10 and submit it to EOPS.
Click to expand...

Okay. What happens if this friend's brother has already left the state and the rifle is here?

Again, thanks for clarifying because I am just trying to make sure that if anything illegal took place it is corrected legally and in as quick a manner as possible.
 
JoeyB said:
Okay. What happens if this friend's brother has already left the state and the rifle is here?

Again, thanks for clarifying because I am just trying to make sure that if anything illegal took place it is corrected legally and in as quick a manner as possible.
Click to expand...
I was wondering when you were going to get to that part. Now that the "transfer" has happened, how does your friend undo it?

Unless the fellow in FL is willing to come up to MA to complete the transfer at a MA FFL, your friend needs to get the rifle back to its owner in FL. But he can't send the rifle directly to the owner. He could send it to a FL FFL and have the FL FFL transfer it back to its owner. Then have the FL owner send the rifle to a MA FFL to do the transfer the right way. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, the shipping and transfer costs will add up. I'm not sure how else to undo this.

Also, your friend will need to line up the FFLs before shipping the rifle.
 
I figured something like that was going to need to happen. Gun laws are so awesome!

Well, thanks for the help. I let my friend know and he can get this corrected right away.
 
Funny thing is an MA FFL could intake this gun immediately, maybe get a copy of the original owner's ID, and then just transfer it out to the guy he wants it to go to and all this waxing about shipping rifles all over creation could be avoided. Most may not do that though. There's no law that I'm aware of that an FFL has to take possession of a gun in person in order to log it into their inventory.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Funny thing is an MA FFL could intake this gun immediately, maybe get a copy of the original owner's ID, and then just transfer it out to the guy he wants it to go to and all this waxing about shipping rifles all over creation could be avoided. Most may not do that though. There's no law that I'm aware of that an FFL has to take possession of a gun in person in order to log it into their inventory.
Click to expand...
That would be the best solution if you can find an FFL to do it.
 
Boy, I am glad I am not dealing with this issue and just seeking advice on behalf of someone! Sounds like the best course of action might be to talk to a lawyer, see if it can be done in an easier way and if that doesn't work out, try M1911's method.
 
If I were him, I would call up Jesse Cohen or Michael Brennan. I've met Attorney Brennan and he seems to be a real good guy -- gun owner and 2nd Amendment supporter.
 
It gets simpler if one doesn't insist on butting heads with the (little) transfer problem. His brother is allowed to lend him the rifle temporarily for sporting purposes. The next time he visits Florida or his brother visits here, they both take the gun to an FFL who can then conduct the actual transfer. FOPA would cover him transporting the rifle with him on his trip to and from Florida, since there's no reference to ownership in the law, only that the gun can be legally possessed at the origin and destination of the trip.

Ken
 
drgrant said:
Funny thing is an MA FFL could intake this gun immediately, maybe get a copy of the original owner's ID, and then just transfer it out to the guy he wants it to go to and all this waxing about shipping rifles all over creation could be avoided. Most may not do that though. There's no law that I'm aware of that an FFL has to take possession of a gun in person in order to log it into their inventory.

-Mike
Click to expand...

This.

KMaurer said:
It gets simpler if one doesn't insist on butting heads with the (little) transfer problem. His brother is allowed to lend him the rifle temporarily for sporting purposes. The next time he visits Florida or his brother visits here, they both take the gun to an FFL who can then conduct the actual transfer. FOPA would cover him transporting the rifle with him on his trip to and from Florida, since there's no reference to ownership in the law, only that the gun can be legally possessed at the origin and destination of the trip.

Ken
Click to expand...

Or this.
 

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