Agreed. When i commented that my Savage was "oddball" i was referring to the very slow twist. I should have better worded my post. My 24" Bushmaster Varmint AR is a 1-9 which is better for 69's (still borderline for 77's ) . My White Oak barreled service rifle is 1-8" very good for 69-80's.
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Accurate 223 round for 1:8 twist
- Thread starter peterk123
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LOL one of my more epic early mistakes was trying 40's and 50's in a fast twist barrel. Had some trouble sighting in- where T-F are they hitting? Finally placed some keyhole shots on paper at 100 yards with the 50's. When I tried the 40's I moved back to 50 yards but no matter- 9 out of 10 blew up before getting to the target. I think that barrel was 1:7.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Anyway, a slow twist barrel would have been the ticket for super light projectiles going warp speed.
LOL one of my more epic early mistakes was trying 40's and 50's in a fast twist barrel. Had some trouble sighting in- where T-F are they hitting? Finally placed some keyhole shots on paper at 100 yards with the 50's. When I tried the 40's I moved back to 50 yards but no matter- 9 out of 10 blew up before getting to the target. I think that barrel was 1:7.
Anyway, a slow twist barrel would have been the ticket for super light projectiles going warp speed.
Ive been told that you can literally strip the jacket off the bullet from "over stabilization" shooting very light bullets down a fast twist barrel. I experimented shooting XM 193 through my 1- 8 service rifle , they seemed stable at 200 yds but accuracy was poor.
It’s over spinning them, not over stabilizing them. But you won’t see it with a 55gr, even with a 1:7 twist. It happens with the lighter varmint rounds when shot at both a high speed and in a fast twist.
widnerkj
NES Member
Keep your eyes peeled for PV selling 77 grain SMK's as factory seconds. Give it about .5 grain shy of max, with CFE223, and it turns into a cheating stick. Also, hordady 60 grain v-max's pushed with benchmark powder runs really well.
peterk123
NES Member
Back to the range today. Shot at 100 yards on an 18 inch target. Zero hits. I had a suspicion that my scope was not holding zero, thus all the accuracy issues.
I'm 90% sure my vortex is not working correctly. I'm tempted to put another scope on it as a test, but at this point I can't see any other issue. I may not be a sniper, but I'm not that bad.
Thoughts?
I'm 90% sure my vortex is not working correctly. I'm tempted to put another scope on it as a test, but at this point I can't see any other issue. I may not be a sniper, but I'm not that bad.
Thoughts?
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Friends don't let friends shoot shit and wesson
StevieP
NES Member
FWIW - both my ARs are chambered in .223 Wylde, with 1:8 twist.
First is 20" Predator Pursuit upper. Stainless 'heavy match' barrel (neither thin nor a bull barrel. target crowned). Geiselle SSA two-stage trigger. Nikon 3 - 12 M-223 BDC600 scope.
Second is 14.5" plus Griffin linear comp = 16.1". POF 3.5lb trigger. Currently has Vortex red/green dot sight but I've shot it with scopes.
Both are most accurate with Hornady 53gr Superformance Varmint ammo. It's fast and accurate. polymer tip. boattail design. very aerodynamic design coupled with extra speed makes it shoot like a 22-250.
next is the standard 55gr Varmint Express V-Max which, I believer, has more of a flat bottom bullet shape.
Both will group <.75" in these guns.
I don't gain any better accuracy with any of the heavier ammo i.e. 62, 68, 77 including 'match' ammo. And it's more expensive.
The carbine's magazine is loaded w/ 62gr Fusion SP ammo which I believe to be just about optimal for AR 'defense' ammo. This is the one on the wall in the bedroom.
First is 20" Predator Pursuit upper. Stainless 'heavy match' barrel (neither thin nor a bull barrel. target crowned). Geiselle SSA two-stage trigger. Nikon 3 - 12 M-223 BDC600 scope.
Second is 14.5" plus Griffin linear comp = 16.1". POF 3.5lb trigger. Currently has Vortex red/green dot sight but I've shot it with scopes.
Both are most accurate with Hornady 53gr Superformance Varmint ammo. It's fast and accurate. polymer tip. boattail design. very aerodynamic design coupled with extra speed makes it shoot like a 22-250.
next is the standard 55gr Varmint Express V-Max which, I believer, has more of a flat bottom bullet shape.
Both will group <.75" in these guns.
I don't gain any better accuracy with any of the heavier ammo i.e. 62, 68, 77 including 'match' ammo. And it's more expensive.
The carbine's magazine is loaded w/ 62gr Fusion SP ammo which I believe to be just about optimal for AR 'defense' ammo. This is the one on the wall in the bedroom.
Set up a big fat target at 25 yards and see how far and wide those bullets are spraying.
Also you can do a quick bore sight in at home. Set up two marker dots about 10 to 15 yards away, arranged vertically approx 3/4" apart. Pull the bolt and fix the rifle so that the lower dot is centered. Scope crosshairs should be very close to the upper dot and for sure on the same vertical plane.
ditto.
it is possible for vortex to be lame, but VERY improbable.
25 to 50 to 100 is a good way to zero, if it is not clear where does it fly. i would first be suspicious of the ammo, then of the gun, and last of the scope.
at 25, just take the bolt out and look through the barrel, then into scope, you will be able to align it into a 8" target. and move from there.
peterk123
NES Member
I've been chasing bullet holes for a year with this rifle and scope. I had some decent groups last week, or so I thought. I changed nothing and now I can't even get within a foot of the bullseye. I guess I could pull the scope off of another gun to prove it. But at this point I can't imagine it's anything else.
I've played the ammo game already. 75gr was providing the best results.
Last year when I had put the scope on it I had a hell of a time zeroing it. I was suspect of it back then because so much dialing was required. And I pulled the bolt back then to bore sight it. I usually can get things real close in a few shots.
Maybe I will pull the scope and just try it with the iron sights to make sure it's not the gun.
I've played the ammo game already. 75gr was providing the best results.
Last year when I had put the scope on it I had a hell of a time zeroing it. I was suspect of it back then because so much dialing was required. And I pulled the bolt back then to bore sight it. I usually can get things real close in a few shots.
Maybe I will pull the scope and just try it with the iron sights to make sure it's not the gun.
vortex has a lifetime warranty that is actually real.
get it to 25, if it is 1 or more inches off the zero - then send the scope for inspection, i guess.
if you sure the mount it stable
peterk123
NES Member
Yup, I checked all the screws with a torque wrench today. It was all good.
peterk123
NES Member
Did that today as well. Two people. We had the gun sitting nice and firm on sandbags. That thing was not going to move. It's gotta be the scope.
Maybe I throw my leupold vx3i on it. That one is coming off of my 308, and it's dead nuts accurate.
peterk123
NES Member
That is not something I have checked. I will do it tomorrow. God I hope not. This one of S&W's performance center rifles!
For sure remove the upper and take out the bolt to sight down the bore and compare to where the scope is aiming.
Agreed that it is possible but very uncommon for a Vortex scope to have that big of a problem. Any chance at all that the scope is a knock off?
Too bad you are not in NE. We'd help you sort that out ASAP.
Agreed that it is possible but very uncommon for a Vortex scope to have that big of a problem. Any chance at all that the scope is a knock off?
Too bad you are not in NE. We'd help you sort that out ASAP.
peterk123
NES Member
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Scope came from Midway, so it should not be a knock off. Will try a couple more things, then I will reach out to midway.
peterk123
NES Member
Well, I'm am idiot. I found the problem. I installed a small pic rail on the bottom of the handguard. Unknowingly, I placed it under the gas block and one of the bolts pushed up on it, forcing the barrel out of whack.
Hopefully that solves it! I still recommend taking a peek through the bore and comparing to where the scope is sighting. That's free. Might yet be worth a bullet or two at 25 yards as well- just to make sure you'll be on paper at 100 and beyond.
M60
NES Member
The tumble was not by design. More like trial and error. However, if Mr. Charles was hit in the shoulder, he was pretty sure to be out of the fight since that shoulder would be pure junk.
peterk123
NES Member
I have been working hard to get this to my liking. I had everything working a week ago. This one threw me for a loop. Completely forgot I added that thing.
Too bad it's snowing out. I'd go out and shoot. Eh, probably go anway.
lukewarm_fuzz
NES Member
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Can confirmno, you cannot do a silver dollar if it`s not a nightforce. nightforce is a minimum. and a $3k swarovski binoculars, to enhance the barrel via those special vibes they emanate.
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