A little rant HANSON ROD AND GUN...made my kid cry

[mac1911]

All the guys complaining about no targets on the ground and not being able to shoot pistol on a rifle range......It is a serious concern of bullets going over from ricochet off the ground.

Years ago I was a member with a 50 yard range that had a dug out pit for a backstop.......Berm was about 30 feet high. There was no rule against shooting targets on the ground so I had put some lacrosse balls out at about 25 yards. Shot at them with a mosin. 3 or 4 rounds into to it a ****ing huge tree branch fell from above the berm! I stopped shooting and went to clear the branch and the ricochet had hit a tree about 10 feet above the berm and tore off that branch. I was ignorant of such problems at the time I did it........But stopped doing it right then and there! Never even considered before that where those were going just assumed up into the backstop.

Club I'm at now.....Rules state all rounds fired must impact the backstop. Period. We are allowed to shoot our own steel but they need to be free swinging and positioned on the small front berm so that projectiles hit the actual backstop behind it. We can even shoot at cans and such.....Just have to position them on the small front berm so the bullets hit the backstop......And clean up after.

There are ways to be safe and prevent rounds over the berm and have fun.

Yet they ban one of the safest targets around.
A bio degradable clay target placed on the lower 3rd of the back stop...?

 

[bigblue]

All the guys complaining about no targets on the ground and not being able to shoot pistol on a rifle range......It is a serious concern of bullets going over from ricochet off the ground.

Years ago I was a member with a 50 yard range that had a dug out pit for a backstop.......Berm was about 30 feet high. There was no rule against shooting targets on the ground so I had put some lacrosse balls out at about 25 yards. Shot at them with a mosin. 3 or 4 rounds into to it a ****ing huge tree branch fell from above the berm! I stopped shooting and went to clear the branch and the ricochet had hit a tree about 10 feet above the berm and tore off that branch. I was ignorant of such problems at the time I did it........But stopped doing it right then and there! Never even considered before that where those were going just assumed up into the backstop.

Club I'm at now.....Rules state all rounds fired must impact the backstop. Period. We are allowed to shoot our own steel but they need to be free swinging and positioned on the small front berm so that projectiles hit the actual backstop behind it. We can even shoot at cans and such.....Just have to position them on the small front berm so the bullets hit the backstop......And clean up after.

There are ways to be safe and prevent rounds over the berm and have fun.

The issue is not the target, the firearm, or the range. The issue is the shooter. You can try to progressive the crap out of your club by creating more and moar rules for every conceivable safety issue but the bottom line is this: People are stupid. They do stupid shit. Your rules might reduce the occurrence of stupid shit while at the same time reducing the number of intelligent responsible shooters because they don't want to put up with your childish rules. What you end up with is a catch-22: You create rules to limit stupid shit done by stupid people and those very rules actually increase the concentration of stupid shooters at your club.

Have fun with that.

#fuddforlife

 

[whacko]

Yet they ban one of the safest targets around.
A bio degradable clay target placed on the lower 3rd of the back stop...?

Yup that's dumb. We are allowed to shoot clays placed on the berm......But the range rules specifically state they need to be positioned no higher than half way up.

My reference was to the ones complaining about not being able to shoot objects placed on the ground. Personal experience for me is that on some ranges with the more common berm design hitting the ground with a projectile well in front of the berm equals good chance of that bullet going well over the berm. The solution is the short berm (knee high) about 3_4 feet in front of the main berm with which to place steel swingers, cans, soda bottles etc. Cheap fix for many clubs too.......Couple of guys a rented bobcat and a load of sand......Done.

 

[whacko]

The issue is not the target, the firearm, or the range. The issue is the shooter. You can try to progressive the crap out of your club by creating more and moar rules for every conceivable safety issue but the bottom line is this: People are stupid. They do stupid shit. Your rules might reduce the occurrence of stupid shit while at the same time reducing the number of intelligent responsible shooters because they don't want to put up with your childish rules. What you end up with is a catch-22: You create rules to limit stupid shit done by stupid people and those very rules actually increase the concentration of stupid shooters at your club.

Have fun with that.

#fuddforlife

I do have fun with it. I even run the practice steel plates every Wednesday all summer. With the racks positioned so that misses hit the berm!

For starters.......Shooting a ground target at 50 yards on a range with a berm at 100 yards......Is stupid. Rounds WILL go over the berm. Now if your club has woods for miles behind it your club may not give a crap. But that is not the case for many clubs. What is the club leadership supposed to do.....Allow people to shoot ground targets and have a bullet hit a home? Sorry man......I don't see a rule of all rounds impacting the berm as a fudd rule......Especially when the club builds a small berm in front to put metal plates and objects on. This same club runs 3 gun and steel plate shoots all the time.....While observing the backstop rule.

 

[bigblue]

I said shooting targets on the ground was stupid shit done by stupid people. Shooting pistols at 100 yards however can be done quite responsibly, we do it all the time.

Rounds must impact the lower 1/3-1/2 of the berm. Period. Doesn't matter where you shoot from or at, just make sure that happens.

 

[whacko]

I said shooting targets on the ground was stupid shit done by stupid people. Shooting pistols at 100 yards however can be done quite responsibly, we do it all the time.

Rounds must impact the lower 1/3-1/2 of the berm. Period. Doesn't matter where you shoot from or at, just make sure that happens.

Sure it can be done responsibly by responsible people like yourself. Unfortunately that is not the case with many members that don't give a shit.

If your club enacts the all rounds hit the berm rule you may be good on the 100 ears range. But you'll definitely have shooters that will **** that up with a handgun on a 100 yard range.

 

[bigblue]

Sure it can be done responsibly by responsible people like yourself. Unfortunately that is not the case with many members that don't give a shit.

If your club enacts the all rounds hit the berm rule you may be good on the 100 ears range. But you'll definitely have shooters that will **** that up with a handgun on a 100 yard range.

My point was, and that is borne out by posts above, that the firearm has nothing to do with it: Rifles do the same damn thing.

The only rule should be where the round impacts the berm. Enforce that as strictly as you desire. Anything else is progressive logic to back into the result you want to achieve by regulating behaviour not results.

 

[whacko]

My point was, and that is borne out by posts above, that the firearm has nothing to do with it: Rifles do the same damn thing.

The only rule should be where the round impacts the berm. Enforce that as strictly as you desire. Anything else is progressive logic to back into the result you want to achieve by regulating behaviour not results.

Understood. I should have specifically mentioned that as many inexperienced shooters like to place their handgun targets close......And as people are inherently lazy and don't want to move downrange.....You will get dumbasses shooting from the line at paper targets placed 20 feet away and have bullets hitting the ground well in front of the berm.

Typical situation......Dumbasses cause the normal folks to be impeded due to their inability to think.

 

[bigblue]

Understood. I should have specifically mentioned that as many inexperienced shooters like to place their handgun targets close......And as people are inherently lazy and don't want to move downrange.....You will get dumbasses shooting from the line at paper targets placed 20 feet away and have bullets hitting the ground well in front of the berm.

Typical situation......Dumbasses cause the normal folks to be impeded due to their inability to think.

Agreed. I disagree with the rules approach: You don't need moar rules, you need to enforce the ones you already got.

 

[Toe Knee]

My point was, and that is borne out by posts above, that the firearm has nothing to do with it: Rifles do the same damn thing.

The only rule should be where the round impacts the berm. Enforce that as strictly as you desire. Anything else is progressive logic to back into the result you want to achieve by regulating behaviour not results.

The range is a 100 yard range. it has about a 25' or so foot berm at 100 yards (maybe higher-mac1911 can verify). There is no other backstops or berms which would be nice and allow for safer pistol shooting or closer rifle shooting. But in the range's current configuration, pistol shooters who set targets at 3'-4' feet high any closer than 25 yards are having ricochets at an alarming rate. mac1911 can attest to that. I saw with my own eyes lighter rifle rounds going up and over on targets set at 25 yards. Those are proven facts and happen whether the shooter is responsible or not.

I have NEVER shot at a flat graded 100 yard range that allowed shooting closer than the 50 yard mark with out smaller berms or with out adjusting the grade. At least not one that cared about ricochets. People have already mentioned adding a smaller berm so if anyone is a fan of that, I suggest making your voice heard. It might help the cause.

So, nobody is trying to "progressive the crap" out of anything. I know you like to argue a point but the simple fact is in order to allow members to use the pits behind the high power range safely, the club is putting some safety rules into place on the high power range. In fact for any shooter who cares to get qualified for the pits or takes a class or shoots in a match there, they will agree the plan isn't to #fudforlife at all. On the contrary. There is going to be some fun stuff going on in the pits witch are still in the planning faze.

As far as i know it's going to be 25 yards and further for .22 and 50 and 100 yards for anything else. In the range's current configuration, it's the only safe way to limit rounds leaving the range.

for anyone who hasn't seen the new pits, i encourage you to check them out.

 

[mac1911]

The range is a 100 yard range. it has about a 25' or so foot berm at 100 yards (maybe higher-mac1911 can verify). There is no other backstops or berms which would be nice and allow for safer pistol shooting or closer rifle shooting. But in the range's current configuration, pistol shooters who set targets at 3'-4' feet high any closer than 25 yards are having ricochets at an alarming rate. mac1911 can attest to that. I saw with my own eyes lighter rifle rounds going up and over on targets set at 25 yards. Those are proven facts and happen whether the shooter is responsible or not.

I have NEVER shot at a flat graded 100 yard range that allowed shooting closer than the 50 yard mark with out smaller berms or with out adjusting the grade. At least not one that cared about ricochets. People have already mentioned adding a smaller berm so if anyone is a fan of that, I suggest making your voice heard. It might help the cause.

So, nobody is trying to "progressive the crap" out of anything. I know you like to argue a point but the simple fact is in order to allow members to use the pits behind the high power range safely, the club is putting some safety rules into place on the high power range. In fact for any shooter who cares to get qualified for the pits or takes a class or shoots in a match there, they will agree the plan isn't to #fudforlife at all. On the contrary. There is going to be some fun stuff going on in the pits witch are still in the planning faze.

As far as i know it's going to be 25 yards and further for .22 and 50 and 100 yards for anything else. In the range's current configuration, it's the only safe way to limit rounds leaving the range.

for anyone who hasn't seen the new pits, i encourage you to check them out.

View attachment 192663

Are they running these pit qualifications yet?
Sadly planning stages at HR&GC historically run at some where be tween slow and even slower

Good thing about Hanson is they bought up some surrounding property and MA wildlife bought another large chunk boarding the club. Which keeps the development at bay.
Maybe now that the new range is close to completion they can focus on more shooting activities. Maybe they can up date the web site also they are only a year behind on the club news

The berm at Hanson is pretty high...I would not be surprised if it's 30'
I don't want a covered range and that's what's next if we have any issues.

 

[Boomer76]

The ground at the high power is awfully hard packed if I remember correctly. I haven't been since before winter. Wouldn't having somebody groom the range, breaking it up prevent many of the ricochets?

 

[larueminati]

I’m not sure if this had been addressed in these 26 pages, but my club somewhat has a similar rule though they don’t enforce it on the rifle/pistol ranges. The trap and skeet fields are over/near/around wetlands which have different restrictions per the state/feds. From what I was told many, if not most clay pigeons manufactures use oil in the manufacturing process which of course is a no-no for wetlands. The club had to bulk order pigeons that from a certain manufacturer that weren’t produced with oil, of course they’re more expensive.

They had no problem if you used this brand of pigeons on your own time but most stores locally don’t sell them, because they’re more expensive, so people would show up with joe’s pigeons and they’d freak out if they saw them. Again, they didn’t care about joe’s pigeons on the rifle and pistol ranges, likely because they’re not left to biodegrade they’re cleaned up eventually. Seems like you club just didn't want to deal with the mess.

 

[mac1911]

I’m not sure if this had been addressed in these 26 pages, but my club somewhat has a similar rule though they don’t enforce it on the rifle/pistol ranges. The trap and skeet fields are over/near/around wetlands which have different restrictions per the state/feds. From what I was told many, if not most clay pigeons manufactures use oil in the manufacturing process which of course is a no-no for wetlands. The club had to bulk order pigeons that from a certain manufacturer that weren’t produced with oil, of course they’re more expensive.

They had no problem if you used this brand of pigeons on your own time but most stores locally don’t sell them, because they’re more expensive, so people would show up with joe’s pigeons and they’d freak out if they saw them. Again, they didn’t care about joe’s pigeons on the rifle and pistol ranges, likely because they’re not left to biodegrade they’re cleaned up eventually. Seems like you club just didn't want to deal with the mess.

The targets with "oil" in them are pitch targets they are made of oil based petroleum pitch
the biodegradable are made of limestone and sulfur and will condition the soil until the Sulfur content exceeds the lime stone then you need to apply more limestone if you want grass to grow...as for leaving a mess. tere are many orange rat snipers at the club and if there any remains they get picked off... you dont see to many pitch targets much anynore i think the only reason they are even still made is for the olympics and the nationals.
I cant remeber the last time i seen pitch targets for sale in a local store.

 

[bigdave1917]

In all fairness HR&G did not stop the shoot,the town did...also state interpretation of the law made it illegal for un-licensed users to operate a machinegun

 

[bigdave1917]

They are working on getting an attachment for the tractor for this very purpose as we speak

 

[mac1911]

They are working on getting an attachment for the tractor for this very purpose as we speak

For what to pick up clays or to grind them into the ground....you know if they plant winter rye in the trap field it will cover the clays in no time.
Winter rye would also make a good erosion fighter for the side berms and upper berm.

 

[henchmen77]

Ask them to put up metal targets plates or swingers and paint them orange.

 

[bigdave1917]

Holy cow..this thread is blowing up! i swear you guys got more drama than a lady's sewing circle,i have first hand knowledge on this topic,first thing,no one said clays on the berm were a ricochet hazard,but clays half buried in the ground from the 10yd line out to 100yd line were a major cause of ricochets,we are a club surrounded by suburbs and can't afford rounds leaving the range,second we had a member climb and place 3 cases of non biodegradable clays on the berm from top to bottom spelling out a marriage proposal! eroding the berm in the process,cleaning up the mess caused further erosion costing the club thousands of dollars to regrade the berm,I was there when CMEBoston was reprimanded (unfairly) due to lack of notification of the rule change,i was also there when the President of the club proposed to Mac1911 he head a 1 member comity on clay targets allowing his daughter to shoot as many clays that she wanted off a club provided clay target holder as long as it got cleaned up after(the offer still stands)we also provide steel silhouette animals for children to use in a .22 gallery style shoot complete with stand to elevate them our goal is for kids to enjoy our range and not alienate anyone,any other questions or complaints can be addressed at regular club meetings as we addressed mac's concerns as soon as they were brought to our attention~Big Dave

 

[whacko]

Holy cow..this thread is blowing up! i swear you guys got more drama than a lady's sewing circle,i have first hand knowledge on this topic,first thing,no one said clays on the berm were a ricochet hazard,but clays half buried in the ground from the 10yd line out to 100yd line were a major cause of ricochets,we are a club surrounded by suburbs and can't afford rounds leaving the range,second we had a member climb and place 3 cases of non biodegradable clays on the berm from top to bottom spelling out a marriage proposal! eroding the berm in the process,cleaning up the mess caused further erosion costing the club thousands of dollars to regrade the berm,I was there when CMEBoston was reprimanded (unfairly) due to lack of notification of the rule change,i was also there when the President of the club proposed to Mac1911 he head a 1 member comity on clay targets allowing his daughter to shoot as many clays that she wanted off a club provided clay target holder as long as it got cleaned up after(the offer still stands)we also provide steel silhouette animals for children to use in a .22 gallery style shoot complete with stand to elevate them our goal is for kids to enjoy our range and not alienate anyone,any other questions or complaints can be addressed at regular club meetings as we addressed mac's concerns as soon as they were brought to our attention~Big Dave

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Holy cow..this thread is blowing up! i swear you guys got more drama than a lady's sewing circle,i have first hand knowledge on this topic,first thing,no one said clays on the berm were a ricochet hazard,but clays half buried in the ground from the 10yd line out to 100yd line were a major cause of ricochets,we are a club surrounded by suburbs and can't afford rounds leaving the range,second we had a member climb and place 3 cases of non biodegradable clays on the berm from top to bottom spelling out a marriage proposal! eroding the berm in the process,cleaning up the mess caused further erosion costing the club thousands of dollars to regrade the berm,I was there when CMEBoston was reprimanded (unfairly) due to lack of notification of the rule change,i was also there when the President of the club proposed to Mac1911 he head a 1 member comity on clay targets allowing his daughter to shoot as many clays that she wanted off a club provided clay target holder as long as it got cleaned up after(the offer still stands)we also provide steel silhouette animals for children to use in a .22 gallery style shoot complete with stand to elevate them our goal is for kids to enjoy our range and not alienate anyone,any other questions or complaints can be addressed at regular club meetings as we addressed mac's concerns as soon as they were brought to our attention~Big Dave

 

[mac1911]

The ground at the high power is awfully hard packed if I remember correctly. I haven't been since before winter. Wouldn't having somebody groom the range, breaking it up prevent many of the ricochets?

I don't think it would help much along with being not practical or cost efficient. Even when they laid fresh sand over it several years ago it was like skipping rocks on water.
This really started many years ago with some golf ball shooters. That's how the upper berm got put in.
Then steel was banned because of people setting up steel in such a fashion they where shooting at it from extreme side angles then reduced to paper targets only because of the trash people left behind.
Fast forward 6-8 years and we are able to shoot at steel again. Sound baffle along sides or range built
and now the new pistol/action/training pits which should help address other problems.

All clubs have problems and there will be times like myself will not be happy with some changes. When my life out side the club slows down or my kids take on shooting more (2 @ 6yrs 1 @8) I will have more time again to be involved like I was before kids.
I try do things from the out side. I push new shooters to try trap and CMP I have sent women over to ladies night I promote activities here on NES at both Hanson and Pembroke I have membership at both as they offer 2 different environments I enjoy.

 

[bigdave1917]

yup we will plant to prevent erosion,the tractor will be used to soften the high power range to help with the ricochets