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A fun and effective new Rifle (Mass ok)

glide said:
I live in NH and travel into MA as well. As I was formally a resident I have a host of MA-okay AR’s but since I’m generally near the city I go Tavor or FS2000.
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Got it. Is that because of the Boston specific AWB?

You bring up a good point in case I am in the city.

glide said:
False. Pre-94 AR’s are fine.

Edit - misread. Post-94’s are supposed to be registered in MA before the enforcement notice. But I don’t consider that legally biding.
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Got it. I think that is what Len was saying.
 
Underwhere said:
Got it. Is that because of the Boston specific AWB?

You bring up a good point in case I am in the city.



Got it. I think that is what Ken was saying.
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Not because of the Boston ban. That only applies to residents.

If I ever needed a rifle in an urban area, I would opt for a rifle designed for an urban area. And really, it just takes up less space and I don’t have to worry (in my mind) about it being on a silly list.
 
Daewoo K1, K2, both pre-ban.

8684419_01_want_to_buy_preban_daewoo_k1_o_640.jpg


E8ZQFZb-1.jpg


79ca6ca09fea133b9112e1454537486f.jpg
 
Underwhere said:
Damn ok. Thanks. Didn't know that.


1. Sig MCX - A bit too AR for me as I've done this before
2. Keltec RDB - Mag release issues
3. IWI Tavor X95 - Still maybe some accuracy issues
4. Desert Tech MDR - Still maybe reliability issues (Apparently just missed an $1899 sale for the 5.56 version)
5. CZ Bren - Shot stringing issues and heavy for really no good reason
6. K&M Arms M17 - Still researching. Don't know whether this is MA ok.
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Here's a video on optimizing the Desert Tech MDR in .223:



I don't really have much else to add on this thread. A truck gun in Mass, where you leave it in a locked truck loaded, safety on, could violate safe storage laws. The Reyes case from 2013 left open the question if a locked glovebox qualified as safe storage. Is a locked truck sufficient to qualify for safe storage? Rhetorical and open question. There's a mechanical lock but would it deter the average person trying to break in? Probably no because they could smash the windows. YMMV.
 
C. Stockwell said:
Here's a video on optimizing the Desert Tech MDR in .223:



I don't really have much else to add on this thread. A truck gun in Mass, where you leave it in a locked truck loaded, safety on, could violate safe storage laws. The Reyes case from 2013 left open the question if a locked glovebox qualified as safe storage. Is a locked truck sufficient to qualify for safe storage? Rhetorical and open question. There's a mechanical lock but would it deter the average person trying to break in? Probably no because they could smash the windows. YMMV.
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Thanks for that. I saw that video a bit ago and thought that the round count was fairly low to claim that all issues were resolved. So I started poking around the bullpup forums and found quite a lot of complaints and some issues with the service provided by Desert Tech. This was all recent stuff. It was enough for me to be very hesitant to purchase it.

As far as safe storage - I don't intend to leave it loaded in the truck with the doors locked. That doesn't meet MA storage requirements.
 
Underwhere said:
Thanks for that. I saw that video a bit ago and thought that the round count was fairly low to claim that all issues were resolved. So I started poking around the bullpup forums and found quite a lot of complaints and some issues with the service provided by Desert Tech. This was all recent stuff. It was enough for me to be very hesitant to purchase it.

As far as safe storage - I don't intend to leave it loaded in the truck with the doors locked. That doesn't meet MA storage requirements.
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Yeah, I'm curious if InRange is going to do more with the MDR, but I don't think so. To me it seems like they (Karl) used it as a testbed for accessories they want to push with the WWSD2020 AR project with Brownell's, like that bipod. Karl openly craps on bullpups so I think he just wants that concept out of his world. Ian... well Ian loves the FAMAS.

Why no Springfield Socom 16? Totally Mass-ok. Very handy carbine for moving around with. I owned one and it was range-reliable (InRange's mud and sand tests clearly demonstrate the M1A isn't mud or sand proof). It seems you're trying to stick with .223/5.56 guns, but the M1A is specifically Mass-ok. 20 rounds of .308 is pretty effective.
 
C. Stockwell said:
Yeah, I'm curious if InRange is going to do more with the MDR, but I don't think so. To me it seems like they (Karl) used it as a testbed for accessories they want to push with the WWSD2020 AR project with Brownell's, like that bipod. Karl openly craps on bullpups so I think he just wants that concept out of his world. Ian... well Ian loves the FAMAS.

Why no Springfield Socom 16? Totally Mass-ok. Very handy carbine for moving around with. I owned one and it was range-reliable (InRange's mud and sand tests clearly demonstrate the M1A isn't mud or sand proof). It seems you're trying to stick with .223/5.56 guns, but the M1A is specifically Mass-ok. 20 rounds of .308 is pretty effective.
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I had considered a multicam scout a while back. I'm trying to stick to my current calibers because I don't want to stock too many different types. I don't do much with 308 at the moment.
 
Underwhere said:
I found 1 on gun broker.
$2800 for a pre-ban. That seems steep. It also seems like a very long rifle.
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I loved my K2 in 5.56. It was well balanced and well designed. Traded it for my EDC G23 (of 26 years) and some cash. Stoopid me...
I did not find it "too long". Hell, it folded in half and you could still shoot it.
 
Underwhere said:
I had considered a multicam scout a while back. I'm trying to stick to my current calibers because I don't want to stock too many different types. I don't do much with 308 at the moment.
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.308/7.62x51 NATO is:

*Readily available at any place that has ammo
*Easily reloadable with common components (no "y'all got any 6.5x53.5r Dutch Mannlicher brass?" issue)
*.30 caliber, which matters if you're looking for suppressors
*Relatively cheap in comparison to other calibers of similar bullet weight and velocity
*A standard NATO caliber for the infinite future, infinite meaning "without specified endpoint in time"

How many different rifle calibers do you have that makes stocking .308/7.62 NATO problematic? We're not talking 6.5 Dutch here.
 
C. Stockwell said:
.308/7.62x51 NATO is:

*Readily available at any place that has ammo
*Easily reloadable with common components (no "y'all got any 6.5x53.5r Dutch Mannlicher brass?" issue)
*.30 caliber, which matters if you're looking for suppressors
*Relatively cheap in comparison to other calibers of similar bullet weight and velocity
*A standard NATO caliber for the infinite future, infinite meaning "without specified endpoint in time"

How many different rifle calibers do you have that makes stocking .308/7.62 NATO problematic? We're not talking 6.5 Dutch here.
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Yes all good points.
I'm not so concerned about availability more than I am about making sure I have a bunch sitting at home.

If I go with a caliber I don't normally shoot then I gotta go stock up on that caliber. Maybe that's the irrational part of me.
 
Underwhere said:
Yes all good points.
I'm not so concerned about availability more than I am about making sure I have a bunch sitting at home.

If I go with a caliber I don't normally shoot then I gotta go stock up on that caliber. Maybe that's the irrational part of me.
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If you only limit yourself to guns of calibers you already own, you're really pigeonholing yourself into only collecting certain things. Hypothetically, if someone only bought .223/5.56 rifles, there's only so much .223 can do. Guns are tools and tools come in different sizes - different calibers. Arguably, .308 is a more versatile "tool" than .223 because it has more energy, though at the expense of more recoil and cost.

Food for thought. A .30 caliber carbine is an extremely fun gun to shoot and quite effective. Plus, there's nothing really "normal" on your current list of six guns. If you open up to more calibers than one, you have a bunch more options.
 
C. Stockwell said:
If you only limit yourself to guns of calibers you already own, you're really pigeonholing yourself into only collecting certain things. Hypothetically, if someone only bought .223/5.56 rifles, there's only so much .223 can do. Guns are tools and tools come in different sizes - different calibers. Arguably, .308 is a more versatile "tool" than .223 because it has more energy, though at the expense of more recoil and cost.

Food for thought. A .30 caliber carbine is an extremely fun gun to shoot and quite effective. Plus, there's nothing really "normal" on your current list of six guns. If you open up to more calibers than one, you have a bunch more options.
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Yup you are right and totally logical.
I'm just not all that rational :)

I've had a few 308's before and sold because I shot 5.56 much more frequently.

The multicam scout from a few years ago was really calling out to me though.
 
Underwhere said:
As far as safe storage - I don't intend to leave it loaded in the truck with the doors locked. That doesn't meet MA storage requirements.
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This needs clarification. It is ILLEGAL (MGL C. 131) to EVER have a loaded long gun IN OR ON (leaning on counts) any motor vehicle at any time at any place. IIRC the same also applies in NH and ME.
 
Len-2A Training said:
As a NH resident, it is a violation of Fed Law for anyone in another state to private sale any guns to you or anyone else. Also NRs don't FA-10 anything.

My advice is buy something in NH that is MGL compliant and bring it into and out of MA at will as long as you have a valid NR LTC.

The AG hasn't and almost certainly will never prosecute anyone wrt her BS edict, it simply is NOT law, just an "opinion" by a pin-head. It scared dealers into compliance and that was her objective (as well as put some of them out of business due to loss of revenue).
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As always, right on Len
 
Another vote for a MA compliant Tavor X95.

Shy of a 10.5" AR-15 SBR, I think the Tavor gives you the size that makes it a very storable rifle.
As short as an SBR, but with a full 16" barrel.

The Tavor will weigh more and may be a little slower to get on target.
But it hits everything else you need in a vehicle rifle.

The Tavor cost more, but it has a lot going for it.
It was designed with vehicle dismounts and clearing buildings in mind.

And you avoid all of our MA AG AW rules with the Tavor!
 
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oldguy68 said:
Another vote for a MA compliant Tavor X95.

Shy of a 10.5" AR-15 SBR, I think the Tavor gives you the size that makes it a very storable rifle.
As short as an SBR, but with a full 16" barrel.

The Tavor will weigh more and may be a little slower to get on target.
But I hits everything else you need in a vehicle rifle.

The Tavor cost more, but it has a lot going for it.
It was designed with vehicle dismounts and clearing buildings in mind.

And you avoid all our MA AG AW rules with the Tavor!
Click to expand...
I'm leaning towards that.
It's accuracy that kills me for a rifle that is roughly $2k.

It would need a trigger pack ($350), maybe a trigger bow ($90) to have a decent trigger.

Some people have given up trying to improve the random fliers and shot stringing.
 
Underwhere said:
I'm looking for a fun new rifle.
AR's are too complex to own in MA so I'm looking to avoid them. I live in NH but plan on going to MA with it.

Requirements:
1. Reliable
2. Pre-ban 30 round AR mag compatibility would be nice
3. Rifle caliber (.223/5.56)

Tavor X95? MDR?
I haven't kept up lately with any fun new long guns that are ok in MA.
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why would you want to come to MA with guns?
VOERE | S16 Light Weight Rifle
 
Underwhere said:
I'm leaning towards that.
It's accuracy that kills me for a rifle that is roughly $2k.

It would need a trigger pack ($350), maybe a trigger bow ($90) to have a decent trigger.

Some people have given up trying to improve the random fliers and shot stringing.
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$2k plus another $500 for a trigger, ugh.
i know its supposed to b
e a "service" weapon but for $2k in the civilian market they trigger should be better out of the box.
Accuracy? It does what they want it to do hits on target out to 300m
 

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